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Author Topic: What do you call this?  (Read 6390 times)

Ray Aberle

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Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2016, 07:49:25 am »

I know from previous posts you've made that you get a lot of use out of your VRX system. What is the real world advantage you find sending these out over a traditional top? Do they sound that superior to other boxes you have or is it just that clients are wiling to pay more for you to bring these out?

Scott, great question!

In our case, I don't have a lot of other kit that would really fit the need(s) that the VRX fills, i.e. a quick to deploy decent sounding smaller system. We go from Mackies/SRX-812Ps (only two of the latter) or passive wedges (STX-812Ms or EAW LA212s) -- to VRX -- to SRX725s. A bit of a jump there. (And then to VerTecs. Haha.) One of the advantages of the VRX, of course, is the ability to fly them as well as deploy them on the ground. They also make conveniently sized front fills.

That being said, when it comes to price structures, I also don't have a large number (or any, really) clients who are so particular about the style or look of the PA that they'll (in Tim's case) pay for a dash-array when they really need a traditional point source rig. My clients for the most part give me a budget, and trust my judgement as to how best to fill the space. Of they just ask for pa/a quote, and I give it to them, and if I'm over budget, we'll talk and see how we can trim it down to meet their budget. So to answer your question directly (finally, I know--), my clients aren't neccesarily paying more to have the VRX deployed on their rig. If anything, it's about the same as something like our 725 rig would be. They're just easier for someone to handle on their own the the 725s would be. :) And they have a wider coverage angle.

-Ray
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Bob Kidd

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Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2016, 10:58:37 am »

Scott, great question!

In our case, I don't have a lot of other kit that would really fit the need(s) that the VRX fills, i.e. a quick to deploy decent sounding smaller system. We go from Mackies/SRX-812Ps (only two of the latter) or passive wedges (STX-812Ms or EAW LA212s) -- to VRX -- to SRX725s. A bit of a jump there. (And then to VerTecs. Haha.) One of the advantages of the VRX, of course, is the ability to fly them as well as deploy them on the ground. They also make conveniently sized front fills.

That being said, when it comes to price structures, I also don't have a large number (or any, really) clients who are so particular about the style or look of the PA that they'll (in Tim's case) pay for a dash-array when they really need a traditional point source rig. My clients for the most part give me a budget, and trust my judgement as to how best to fill the space. Of they just ask for pa/a quote, and I give it to them, and if I'm over budget, we'll talk and see how we can trim it down to meet their budget. So to answer your question directly (finally, I know--), my clients aren't neccesarily paying more to have the VRX deployed on their rig. If anything, it's about the same as something like our 725 rig would be. They're just easier for someone to handle on their own the the 725s would be. :) And they have a wider coverage angle.

-Ray

Very nice. Have used the VRX several times and is easier to setup then my SRX 725s but I personally I like the sound from my 725s over 728s much better. But do see advantage to VRX in some situations. Anyone use VRX over 728s have thought's ? VerTecs! Someday I hope. Lol
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 12:58:17 pm by Bob Kidd »
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Ken Braziel

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Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2016, 01:47:24 pm »

My company has several KLA's - they are the best option for our most regular $ gig (40 free shows as an outdoor mall from May to October) - popping two of them up on poles with the subs in a center cluster leaves a LOT of sight-lines for the audience that would be blocked by the KW153's. Many of the bands have their own engineers, one of them works primarily with VRX and was very impressed with the KLA's, especially when pushed hard.

I don't think of them as line-arrays of course, they're array-able point-source boxes that fit well in certain niches.
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Bob Kidd

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Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2016, 02:33:48 pm »

My company has several KLA's - they are the best option for our most regular $ gig (40 free shows as an outdoor mall from May to October) - popping two of them up on poles with the subs in a center cluster leaves a LOT of sight-lines for the audience that would be blocked by the KW153's. Many of the bands have their own engineers, one of them works primarily with VRX and was very impressed with the KLA's, especially when pushed hard.

I don't think of them as line-arrays of course, they're array-able point-source boxes that fit well in certain niches.

Definitely agree with site lines. I at this point could only do VRX or 725 and find I would need 4 vrx928s to match my 2 725s .
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jason misterka

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Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2016, 03:32:42 pm »

It fails to actually perform as either.  It is too short for even upper bass control and it is a preset constant curvature so you can't get coupling for higher SPL toward the top of the array by making it a "J" or progressive curvature and you can't get enough elements to use gain shading to much advantage.

As Robert said, a marketing success.  It looks like a line array, it is compact, it is lightweight, it is relatively inexpensive.  Unfortunately, in my experience, not the right choice (for anything) from an audio perspective.

Lee

I agree that I haven't heard a VRX or a KLA rig that I liked.  But I'm curious why it is that someone can't build a decent sounding constant curvature array. 

We own and have owned several point source systems that do array between 3 and 9 boxes fairly well.

Even our old Floodlights arrayed reasonably well.  Yes there was interference between boxes. Yes of course you certainly had to manage low-mid buildup as the array got larger.  And it didn't have the best pattern control down low.  But pattern control isn't EVERYTHING.  You could still have a good show on them.

So what is so hard about making a constant curve array that sounds at least as good as technology from 1990?

Is it much harder to have a wider horizontal and a narrow vertical pattern, and to have the vertical patterns array well together?

The very real advantages of being able to hang the array higher, and gain shade easier,  should significantly help front to back coverage.  Plus better sight lines.

Why can't this form factor be developed into a proper system that can do a decent show in spaces where an eight foot line array hang is not appropriate?

Jason
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Jerome Malsack

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Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2016, 03:33:27 pm »

Ok so if you have enough boxes to run as the line array,  Then are the tops all using the same signal and not time delayed or is there a way to steer the sound by each box having it's own amp channel and a delay or other box to steer the signal?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2016, 03:37:50 pm »


Is it much harder to have a wider horizontal and a narrow vertical pattern, and to have the vertical patterns array well together?


The basic problem is that when you have a narrow pattern horn it HAS to be large.

So when you make it small, it is only narrow at the top octave.

Below that, it just starts to spray sound everywhere.

This is exactly where all the interference comes in and starts to react and cancel with other boxes that are near it.

That darn physics thing again
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

jason misterka

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Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2016, 03:52:07 pm »

The basic problem is that when you have a narrow pattern horn it HAS to be large.

So when you make it small, it is only narrow at the top octave.

Below that, it just starts to spray sound everywhere.

This is exactly where all the interference comes in and starts to react and cancel with other boxes that are near it.

That darn physics thing again

So, this was done in 1990. Maybe not perfectly but well enough to make a rock show.  What's different with physics now?

Our Turbosound Aspects have 25 degree by 15 degree HF. Yes I know, not down to 100hz, but who cares.
Why is it not possible to put several NOMINALLY  90 degree wide by 15 degree boxes on top of each other and have it be at least as good as an horizontal array with three boxes?  Plus you get height and gain shading benefits.

I'm not saying it has to weigh only 50lbs and be absolutely tiny.  I am comparing it to a real concert box at 130 lbs etc.

Jason
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2016, 03:57:35 pm »

Jason:
Have you heard EAW JFL210/213?
I like them better than VRX, smoother coverage and decent array performance.
I haven't heard the KLA.
FWIW :)
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2016, 04:02:11 pm »

Jason:
Have you heard EAW JFL210/213?
I like them better than VRX, smoother coverage and decent array performance.
I haven't heard the KLA.
FWIW :)
I had JFL210 previously.  Sounded great, but was not as loud as VRX.  I currently use JBL 4886 which sounds better than both VRX and JFL, is WAY WAY louder, and with adjustable box angles as well as the yoke, allows you to get them as high as you want them and pointed at the people while still being able to be pole mounted (on big poles like Global Truss ST-132).
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: What do you call this?
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2016, 04:02:11 pm »


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