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[Mark Finnemore]

You may have seen my other 2 threads about choosing speakers.

I came across a B-Stock Yamaha DSR112 and figured what the hell, I'll buy it.  If I don't like it I can use it as a monitor, or if I really don't like it I can sell it second hand for a small loss or take it back.

Okay, initially I thought wow, that is shrill as hell.  Then I realised I had the "reduce bass" setting set in ITunes   I removed that, and it was better.  Still shrill, but better.  I set about playing with the parametric EQ and found it sounds nicer if I use a high shelf and roll off 2 or 3dB.  Why do they voice these things with so much HF?  It seemed to sound much fuller and more balanced if I did a fairly broad boost around 500hz, and obviously that's similar to cutting above 500hz which lead me to my high shelf cut, and that brings the lower bass a bit more too.

The shelf is set at 6khz but the curve starts around 550hz I think.  This is just from my initial messing about and is by no means how I'll leave it.  I'm sure once it is in a big room it'll be different.

I can now listen to it with far less of that weird fatigue feeling in my ears   And now it sounds good with the material I've tried so far, very clear snare and voice, punchy.

I do realise ear fatigue can come about from just trying to listen too hard... 

Anyway, it'll make a great monitor, especially for drums as I think the punch I can get around 80hz is great to hear the kick and bass, and the vocals should cut easily.

I may buy another and use them as mains, or I may go and compare it to some others and see what I can find.  I'm not sure I want to be hoisting up anything heavier onto stands than the DSR112 so I think JBL SRX812p's might be out of the running unfortunately   Yes I should lift some weights, haha.. I've been out of the game too long   I really should get a sub too.

Other possibilities are:
1) RCF 710, 712, HD-10, HD-12 and HD-32
2) Yamaha DX10, DX12
3) JBL PRX710, PRX712

Though if I can find anywhere to try any of these near to Leicester I don't know..

I'll probably find out in the wild I don't need to roll so much off, but in the house it is definitely a bit shrill to my ear without EQ.  Maybe I'm just a bit sensitive to HF, but having said that I'm 37, a drummer and play in rock bands.. my HF hearing can't be that good!

I'm going to compare it to my old EV S200 later which is known to have a sweet top end and I've never found shrill when used as mains in the rehearsal room.

[John Penkala]

You may have seen my other 2 threads about choosing speakers.

I came across a B-Stock Yamaha DSR112 and figured what the hell, I'll buy it.  If I don't like it I can use it as a monitor, or if I really don't like it I can sell it second hand for a small loss or take it back.

Okay, initially I thought wow, that is shrill as hell.  Then I realised I had the "reduce bass" setting set in ITunes   I removed that, and it was better.  Still shrill, but better.  I set about playing with the parametric EQ and found it sounds nicer if I use a high shelf and roll off 2 or 3dB.  Why do they voice these things with so much HF?  It seemed to sound much fuller and more balanced if I did a fairly broad boost around 500hz, and obviously that's similar to cutting above 500hz which lead me to my high shelf cut, and that brings the lower bass a bit more too.

The shelf is set at 6khz but the curve starts around 550hz I think.  This is just from my initial messing about and is by no means how I'll leave it.  I'm sure once it is in a big room it'll be different.

I can now listen to it with far less of that weird fatigue feeling in my ears   And now it sounds good with the material I've tried so far, very clear snare and voice, punchy.

I do realise ear fatigue can come about from just trying to listen too hard... 

Anyway, it'll make a great monitor, especially for drums as I think the punch I can get around 80hz is great to hear the kick and bass, and the vocals should cut easily.

I may buy another and use them as mains, or I may go and compare it to some others and see what I can find.  I'm not sure I want to be hoisting up anything heavier onto stands than the DSR112 so I think JBL SRX812p's might be out of the running unfortunately   Yes I should lift some weights, haha.. I've been out of the game too long   I really should get a sub too.

Other possibilities are:
1) RCF 710, 712, HD-10, HD-12 and HD-32
2) Yamaha DX10, DX12
3) JBL PRX710, PRX712

Though if I can find anywhere to try any of these near to Leicester I don't know..

I'll probably find out in the wild I don't need to roll so much off, but in the house it is definitely a bit shrill to my ear without EQ.  Maybe I'm just a bit sensitive to HF, but having said that I'm 37, a drummer and play in rock bands.. my HF hearing can't be that good!

I'm going to compare it to my old EV S200 later which is known to have a sweet top end and I've never found shrill when used as mains in the rehearsal room.

I think this is mostly a matter of perspective. They DSR112 may seem too bright up close but because of that they have clarity at a further distance. Try listening to them at 20-30-40ft along with the EV's. You'll notice a huge difference. I've used the DSR112's a few times and never thought that they needed more in the 500hz range. I suspect that if you use the DSR112 with subs you wouldn't shelve the high end. You'd just lower the volume of the DSR112 in relation to the subs. ymmv

[Mark Finnemore]

I think this is mostly a matter of perspective. They DSR112 may seem too bright up close but because of that they have clarity at a further distance. Try listening to them at 20-30-40ft along with the EV's. You'll notice a huge difference. I've used the DSR112's a few times and never thought that they needed more in the 500hz range. I suspect that if you use the DSR112 with subs you wouldn't shelve the high end. You'd just lower the volume of the DSR112 in relation to the subs. ymmv

Yes I was thinking that, and perhaps why some said they might be a bit much in smaller places (though I guess in that case I can just shelve it if I need to).

I probably am being a bit unfair judging them in the wrong context.

Interestingly the EV S200's seem to have a bit more body to them that I can't replicate on the DSR's, hard to describe, though the EV's obviously lack at the bass end of things (as expected with a suitcase sized plastic cab).

It's an interesting exercise for sure, but a bit academic without putting them in a real situation.

In theory the top end should be nicer than my old Turbosound TQ-310's as they only had a 1" compression driver.. though it was a 10" speaker.

I am probably, as always, over thinking it.  It's what I do best

Looks like someone beat me to it on the L'Acoustics SB15p's, so next will be the huge decision.. JBL PRX715-XLF or JBL PRX718-XLF.  I probably ought to go find them and see if the 18" is way too big or not..  I only have a car!  A fairly big one though..

[Mark Wilkinson]

Hi Mark,

Are you listneing to the dsr alone, without sub?

If so (and maybe even if not) ......I think 95% of what makes a main speaker seem shrill or bright, is more about full spectrum balance than anything else.
By full spectrum, I mean how well the top is integrated with a sub.
Picture a see saw, with low freq on one end, and high freq on the other.
Too little LF, top seems bright.  Too much LF, top seems dull.

I don't think comparisons of tops alone have much, if any, validity.....they all have different acoustic LF rolloff, maybe magnified by  different x-over induced rolloff....
IME, whichever has the least LF extension will sound the brightest..that simple really.

Maybe a valid comparison for brightness or shrill could me made, top against top without any subs, if you high passed response to all the tops at the same freq, with a very steep brickwall filter, where the least extended LF response determines the cutoff freq..

And another gotcha re comparing brightness...whichever top to sub has the best phase alignment throughout  the x-over region will sound less bright....again due to brightness being more about balance than absolute..which is due to no hole in LF energy due to good summation.

A reason why it's always a idea good to stick with same manufacturer, top and sub....unless you can measure and move timing and phase around.....

[Stephen Kirby]

I'm probably one of the few who own both DSR112s and some old EVS200s (as well as recently having had some S100s as well).

The EV's are very seductive on their own and in their time were one of my benchmarks.  There is a warmth and body to the sound that gives the impression of fullness.  For quiet gigs and small rooms these are nice.  They won't hurt or annoy anyone and have the kind of rich pleasing sound many general consumers like.

The Sx series (and I also have some Sx80s I use for coffeeshop type gigs) have a similar sound with a bit more low end extension and go a bit louder.  A standard for many years in small SOS set ups.  But with EV, it stopped there.  The ZLX aren't shrill but they're scooped in a sort of consumer smile curve.  The higher end small boxes get progressively more forward tilted as you go up the line.

There's a sort of similar thing to the Yamaha line in that the lower end DBR and DXR are more polite and warm sounding while the DSR sounds more forward.  Not as peaky as something like the ETX but definitely not as soft as the DXRs.

Some years ago I simplified my rig which was a home built small line array based on planar drivers and tri-amped with a couple of speakers on sticks and two single 18 subs.  I wasn't doing larger corporate or outdoor events with my band and hadn't found clients to make it worthwhile to drag it all out for only a few hundred dollars.  So I listened and took advice from this forum and got a pair of QSC K10s.  Which also sounded nice and didn't have that shrill sound I'd always hated about JBL speakers.  I kept several of the EVs for monitor use and as an alternative in case the QSC's lunched themselves.

When several keyboard playing friends and one guy with a small sound business started replacing their QSCs with Yamaha DXRs I took notice.  There was more headroom and clarity.  The nice polite QSC's sounded congested and stuffy when pushed.  Which led me to the DSRs.

In a room like the earlier post I would still break out the QSCs as they would be fine for that size space.  But I did a couple of larger outdoors gigs last summer and the feedback was fantastic.  The first I did for almost nothing just to help a friend out and try out the speakers to see if they lived up to the hype.  The event organizers were so impressed that they found budget for sound and I'll be doing it properly this year.  Another was a band I put together for a music in the park gig and the folks there said it was the first time they could clearly hear the singing.  So they brought me back (with proper compensation) to do the last show of their season and I'll be doing all of them this summer.

So I started taking them out for a classic rock band I occasionally sub with and the same thing.  At overcooked volumes in a little pub, people could for the first time understand the vocals.

So, while I still don't like the JBL icepick in the forehead (and not all their speakers do this these days) I've come to understand the difference between a nice warm sound listening up close at home and projecting the music over a din of noise in an actual venue.

It's not so much that the DSR's (or SRX712s, my other favorite small tops) are shrill, it's that they don't mush out or have "warm" colorations.  If you're singing in a coffee shop that 500Hz warmth is appropriate.  When things get louder, it becomes mud and affects the ability to hear all that the different instruments are doing.  This is where the DSR's shine.  Although you can eq them to put the warmth in there, they will still carry intelligibility better than polite warm speakers like the S200s.

Tools in the toolbox,  pick the right one for the job and things become much easier.

[James Paul]

The OP wrote :`I probably am being a bit unfair judging them in the wrong context.'
To that I say, +1.
Mike, perhaps you would care to share impressions of a comparison between an S200 & a DSR112 in a more appropriate venue and proper context, if/ when you might get around to such, even as unfair a comparison that may be, if for nothing more than Sh_ts & G_ggles.
+1 on right tool for the job.

[Mark Finnemore]

Thanks for the replies all.
It also occurred to me that I am listening at relatively low levels, so naturally my ear will pick up upper mid-range more, and I think it is the upper mid-range perhaps more than anything.  Interesting article here:

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/print/perception_is_reality_psychoacoustics_from_an_audio_engineers_perspective

I guess I was a little worried too as I'd seen a few posts saying they only used DSR112s as monitors as they found them a bit harsh for FOH.

Anyway, the proof will be in the pudding, and if worst comes to worst, I think I can just tame it in the EQ, unless it is something inherent about the speaker's design.

[Gordon Brinton]

I've been using my DSR112's as FOH for probably 25 or 30 shows now and i can tell you they do not sound too harsh anywhere in the frequency spectrum. They are slightly more mid-forward than other speakers I've used, (JBL, EV, and Turbo,) but "harsh" is not a word I would use to describe them.

Another thing I've noticed is that two of them sound better in a decent venue than listening to just one at home. I would suggest that you rent a second one and take them out and use them the way they were intended to be used (with proper subs,) and then come back and give us your review. Also, try running them at a venue for a few moments flat (without any EQ). Mine usually sound pretty good that way.

[Mark Finnemore]

I've been using my DSR112's as FOH for probably 25 or 30 shows now and i can tell you they do not sound too harsh anywhere in the frequency spectrum. They are slightly more mid-forward than other speakers I've used, (JBL, EV, and Turbo,) but "harsh" is not a word I would use to describe them.

Another thing I've noticed is that two of them sound better in a decent venue than listening to just one at home. I would suggest that you rent a second one and take them out and use them the way they were intended to be used (with proper subs,) and then come back and give us your review. Also, try running them at a venue for a few moments flat (without any EQ). Mine usually sound pretty good that way.

I will   And.. you were right before you edited your post, it was a bit unfair of me to create this thread without first being more thorough.  I too would hate for it to put anyone off, which is why I qualified my post saying it might be an unfair test (which it really is), hopefully that came across.

I have a horrid cold at the moment so that's halted my experimenting somewhat, but the more I play with it the more I think it is a great speaker.  I can't wait to try them at the end of June, though unfortunately I will be behind them playing drums, and I'll only get to hear pre-recorded music through them afterwards.  Once I get the word out though that I'm "back in the game", I may get asked to do sound before then.

Sub wise, I'm currently thinking either PRX718-XLF or PRX715-XLF depending on what I can comfortably lift when I go look at them   I'm usually working solo and use my car, so size and weight is fairly important..  If I go 15's I'll probably have to get 2 for sure, whereas with an 18 I could probably get away with 1 most of the time.  The weight of the 15's is very attractive...  Whether I need the few extra hertz depth of the 18 (and 3 more dB) is also something I need to decide.

Thanks!

[Jay Marr]

Mark,
I tried one DSR in my basement, comparing to some other speakers (EAW LA212 and QSC KW) and I also found the DSR a little aggressive in the HF range.
That being said, I did not try them with a sub, I did not try a pair together, and I did not try them out in the field yet.  So I am not passing judgement (same as you), until I get to use them at some gigs.  They're not mine, so I'm at the mercy of my bass player as to when I can get my hands on them.
As soon as I get my hands on them, I will be setting up pairs of tops, with a single SRX728 sub, and doing some loud listening.
I'll have the DSR's, EAW LA212's, QSC HPR, QWC KW, Turbosound iQ, and I'm trying to find a way to get some SRX812's and/or even the QSC E-Series tops that just came out.  I spoke to QSC and according to their support team, the E-Series are supposed to be a slight step up from the KW.  I like passive boxes though (which is a long story as to why....and everyone tries to talk me into powered tops (for good reasons))... so if I can find a great pair of passive tops, I will stick with those).  And no I can't really afford Danley SM80's.

[ProSoundWeb Community]