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Author Topic: Dante redundant playback switch  (Read 15372 times)

Andrew Broughton

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Dante redundant playback switch
« on: May 10, 2016, 02:00:40 am »

Has anyone ever seen any Dante product that will take 2 Dante streams and allow you to switch between them?

The application is a playback system with 2 playback computers running simultaneously. Should one fail or crash, I want to be able to switch to the other as quickly as possible.
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Robert Lofgren

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Re: Dante redundant playback switch
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2016, 02:47:47 am »

If you name your dante to the same name on both computers your dante reciever will acknowledge the change as an replacement so there is usually no need for some 'dante switch' when you replace a device.

Of course, you must not connect both computers at the same time as dante will (temporarly?) rename your device name on the last connected computer.
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Dante redundant playback switch
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2016, 07:38:52 am »

Has anyone ever seen any Dante product that will take 2 Dante streams and allow you to switch between them?

The application is a playback system with 2 playback computers running simultaneously. Should one fail or crash, I want to be able to switch to the other as quickly as possible.

Andrew,
Any DSP with Dante should be able to do this. Not cheaply though. A BSS BLU-806 is a 1 RU box that would handle this no problem.
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Dante redundant playback switch
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2016, 09:59:57 am »

The real issue with this is what are you trying to provide redundancy against?

If its the primary playback machine being disconnected, this can be done at either the network level (device replacement, etc...), or the audio level (switch triggred by loss of pilot signal, etc...).

But if you also want to protect against audio only issues, like a playback machine skipping or something, you can't do this at the network level, since as far as the dante stream is concerned, everything is all OK, its the content of the audio stream thats the issue.

So in reality, you need an automatic or GPI driven audio switch. This can be done inside an audio processor easily, but you've created another single point of failure there which is something to be aware of.

My favored method is to use a processor with a GPI triggered super-quick crossfade, or just convert to Dante after a good old relay driven analog changeover
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Dante redundant playback switch
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2016, 11:06:12 am »

Thanks, everyone. The changeover is in case of a computer or software crash on the playback machines.

Thinking about this further, maybe the best solution would be to use a Dante patch change in the digital mixing board switched by a GPI.
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Dante redundant playback switch
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2016, 01:44:17 pm »

Thinking about this further, maybe the best solution would be to use a Dante patch change in the digital mixing board switched by a GPI.

This is the way most of the touring Broadway QLab rigs are set up that I have seen.

I wish there was an easy way to run two computers and in sync and track the cues through playback and switch with just a UDK on the console. 
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Justice C. Bigler
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Dante redundant playback switch
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2016, 01:55:07 pm »

This is the way most of the touring Broadway QLab rigs are set up that I have seen.
Good to know, thanks!

Quote
I wish there was an easy way to run two computers and in sync and track the cues through playback and switch with just a UDK on the console. 
Sounds easy enough. What's making it not easy?
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Jason Lavoie

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Re: Dante redundant playback switch
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2016, 02:43:27 pm »

Thanks, everyone. The changeover is in case of a computer or software crash on the playback machines.

Thinking about this further, maybe the best solution would be to use a Dante patch change in the digital mixing board switched by a GPI.

If that's the case, could you have both fed to the console and setup a ducker so that the primary ducks the secondary?
You'd have to have some other way to notify you of the failure so that you know, but the switchover would be seamless

* Seamless switchover requires a ducker with a fast release, which could be problematic if the two sources aren't perfectly in sync.

Jason
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Dante redundant playback switch
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2016, 02:48:35 pm »

If that's the case, could you have both fed to the console and setup a ducker so that the primary ducks the secondary?
Of course, but I'm thinking about doing it without eating up extra channels on the mixer. The Dante Patch change would work fine, I think...
Quote
You'd have to have some other way to notify you of the failure so that you know, but the switchover would be seamless
Not looking for seamless, just not seconds for Dante to re-subscribe, so switching at the network level is not as good a plan as switching Dante patches. I have to do some tests to see whether audio drops out for other channels while changing Dante Patch using the Patch Library on the Yamaha.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 02:54:59 pm by Andrew Broughton »
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Dante redundant playback switch
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2016, 03:11:58 pm »

Good to know, thanks!
Sounds easy enough. What's making it not easy?


Last I remembered, when I looked into this several years ago; It had to do with the way that QLab is structured. Even though it will follow time code, it does really sync to itself. So you have to have two separate computers, each with an independent audio interface,  running two separate instances of QLab with the same cue list, and then each computer follows the MIDI or GPIO signals and they track manually, usually using the MIDI Solutions F8. If one goes down you execute a patch change on the console and switch your computer set up through a KVM switch and keep going where you left off. QLab, even though it may be outputting through DVS as the audio interface, doesn't really network to other QLab machines that I am away of.


I'm not super well versed in the playback set ups that these shows are running. I have four QLab systems running on Mac Minis and a Mac Pro in the building, but we run in a non redundant set up because I can't justify having 8 separate machines in the building to do the same thing. Yes, one day one of them will crash and it will bite us in the ass, but it's a money thing.


I wish Andy Leviss was still around, he would be able to answer all of these questions and propose the best solutions to them.


I think that StageSoft can do this, as it is meant to run in a networked environment. But I haven't used it. I know the developer so maybe I can ask him.


I'm not sure that even SFX or D-MITRI will work in a full redundant setup like we would want.
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Justice C. Bigler
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Re: Dante redundant playback switch
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2016, 03:11:58 pm »


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