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[Stephen Swaffer]

Only if he doesn't listen and learn... his manager is more interested in sales than public safety. If you escalate it that far, advise that RPBG can and does kill people so advice to bootleg a ground is dangerous.

Further even without the reverse polarity, and open neutral can energize the bootleg safety ground. The manager might respond to the potential for legal liability from giving hazardous advice. 

JR

Of course, there is the approach that the best, most economical yet safe way to approach this install for the DIY would be to install a GFCI receptacle-which is an honest, appropriate up sell for the retailer.

[John Roberts {JR}]

Of course, there is the approach that the best, most economical yet safe way to approach this install for the DIY would be to install a GFCI receptacle-which is an honest, appropriate up sell for the retailer.

But again... NEVER BOOTLEG ground. A GFCI bootleg ground to the output side neutral will not trip the GFCI. If that output side neutral bootleg is actually to line (RPBG), the hot safety ground is unprotected by the GFCI. 

Just NEVER BOOTLEG ever...   

GFCI with open ground is just fine... I have a few wired that way in my casa.

JR

[Mike Sokol]

I am thinking of going back and following up with him. Would you speak with his manager?

If it were me I think I would. As you well know, a bootleg ground in an old house has a real chance of becoming an RPBG since it's really easy to mix up neutral and hot in old wiring, especially K&T. 

However, I've tried for 5 years now to get Home Depot and Lowes to let me make some NSZ training videos or do some on-site seminars for their sales staff, but so far it's fallen on deaf ears. If the manager doesn't believe me on No~Shock~Zone, perhaps they'll read my article on Equipment Construction & Maintenance Magazine since that's more related to the home wiring industry. http://ecmweb.com/contractor/failures-outlet-testing-exposed

[Stephen Swaffer]

But again... NEVER BOOTLEG ground. A GFCI bootleg ground to the output side neutral will not trip the GFCI. If that output side neutral bootleg is actually to line (RPBG), the hot safety ground is unprotected by the GFCI. 

Just NEVER BOOTLEG ever...   

GFCI with open ground is just fine... I have a few wired that way in my casa.

JR

Agreed!  I need to verify, but I am reasonably certain that most (if not all by UL mandate) reputable, current manufacture,  GFCIs will not reset (and will trip if previously reset) with any sort of a bootleg ground.

[John Roberts {JR}]

Agreed!  I need to verify, but I am reasonably certain that most (if not all by UL mandate) reputable, current manufacture,  GFCIs will not reset (and will trip if previously reset) with any sort of a bootleg ground.

If the bootleg is connected on the output side of the GFCI it just looks like normal loop current to the GFCI. If the bootleg is wired to input side it will trip from faults > 5mA.

JR

[Mike Sokol]

For those of you who don't know how they work, here's my primer on GFCI theory. Note that a GFCI does NOT require a ground wire to function properly. http://noshockzone.org/rv-electrical-safety-part-viii-gfci/

[Mike Sokol]

I was at Home Depot picking up a spit nut and I overhead the fellow working in the electrical department telling someone to bootleg a ground in an outlet.  Went do far as to explain that neutral and ground are connected in the panel and since the tester sees the circuit as good it's safe.

A lot of "old school" electricians still do bootleg grounds because that was seen as a valid solution to adding grounded receptacles to ungrounded wiring until the 80's. While the GFCI was invented in 1961 and became part of the code in 1971 for outside outlets, many jurisdictions didn't adopt that part of the code until the mid-80's, largely due to GFCI expense and false tripping. I can remember one of the local tech-school teachers showing me how to do a bootleg ground back in the early 70's. And that was needed to add "grounded" outlets to rental properties that would pass the inspector's 3-light tester. Interestingly, that's exactly when I encountered my first RPBG... in the bathroom of a rental property.

[Keith Broughton]

Now that I have inherited my parents post war house, I'm seeing how the wiring was done.
It's all very well installed and properly terminated but most of it is 2 wire.
I think it's time to go back and rewire!

Is there a GFCI that is "2 pole" for split recepticals in the kitchen?

[John Roberts {JR}]

Now that I have inherited my parents post war house, I'm seeing how the wiring was done.
It's all very well installed and properly terminated but most of it is 2 wire.
I think it's time to go back and rewire!

Is there a GFCI that is "2 pole" for split recepticals in the kitchen?

I don't understand the question.

If you mean dual receptacles, the output from one GFCI can be connected to a second outlet, to protect both.

JR

[Keith Broughton]

I don't understand the question.

If you mean dual receptacles, the output from one GFCI can be connected to a second outlet, to protect both.

JR

I most new kitchens there are dual recepticals where each of the 2 outlets are split and fed with separate (linked)breakers.

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