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[Scott Carneval]

I am looking at boxes between $2000 a $3000 a piece ( export pricing).

Planning on six box per side (all powered boxes)

So your budget is $24-36k?

I'm not sure about export fees, but strictly based on USD you could get a pair of Danley SH96HO and subs to go with it for well within your budget, and it would sound INFINITELY better than anything you've listed. Not to mention a whole lot easier to deploy.

[Luke Geis]

I recently got to see and hear the Ernie Ball mobile stage they have. It uses a set of 6 EV line array units per side in what is essentially a ground stack configuration. I was not impressed. The boxes were dead hung from the top of the mobile structure to the stage floor in a straight line ( about the only way you can do a ground stack anyway ). Needless to say they top 3-4 boxes were shooting over the tops of every one's heads doing nothing but wasting energy....... Point being that the wrong tool for the job is still the wrong tool. In this case sound was splattered all over the neighborhood and not really covering the actual listening area. Insult to injury was that the sound that was actually beating the inverse square law was also the sound being splattered all over the neighborhood........ It was not pleasant in the far field. Up front by the stage it was ok.

A dash array is one where there are too few a number of boxes to have any real directional control over the majority of frequencies it projects. It is said that at a minimum, you need to have 4 boxes to even start acquiring line array characteristics. Adding a couple more boxes gains a little more control, but if it still isn't enough, then it is still not enough. Also keep in mind what starting to have directional control even means? The array length needs to be several times longer than the lowest frequency of interest in order to have directional control over that frequency. In the case of a six box hang ( which would be about 6-7' long ), the lowest practical frequency in which control will be had is roughly 700-800hz ( and probably closer to 800hz ). Doubling the length of the array to a 12-14 box hang will give you control down to about 350hz. So not a whole lot more really......... It would take a 30 box hang to get directional control down to around the 100-150hz range!!!! Taken into perspective, a line array requires around 30 boxes and a HUGE amount of investment to only just have control of frequencies that are near the typical crossover points.

Going back to ranking these different systems, I would say that they all will sound relatively good. I think you may find that the Constant Curvature arrays will sound more even at distance VS. that of the actual line array systems. A CC ( constant curvature ) array is not really an array in the technical sense, so it behaves a little differently than a line array. It is in essence a Point Source box turned on its side. The major difference being that the horns are designed to couple more seamlessly. This is great in systems that need to be scaled for different venues and or where " shading " the boxes is needed to even the HF coverage from the front to the back. A Dash Array ( a small scale, especially ground stacked array ) has no real benefits other than looking cool perhaps. The coverage is the most important thing to consider. Looking at the prediction software will really tell you a lot. In most cases where a dash array is used, there is PS system that costs half as much that would do the job just as good, if not much better.

[Renard Hurtado]

So your budget is $24-36k?

I'm not sure about export fees, but strictly based on USD you could get a pair of Danley SH96HO and subs to go with it for well within your budget, and it would sound INFINITELY better than anything you've listed. Not to mention a whole lot easier to deploy.

Hi Scott,  thanks for your input.

I was considering the SH46, three per side ( as they seem to produce the same SPL as the Apogee 3x3 but are not that heavy).  I have a bunch of dual subs ( including four Apogee AE-15 , quad 15' sub w/ proc)
but everybody is starting to ask for a line-array ! All riders that I have seen from bands comming from abroad are asking for some kind of line array.

[Mark Amber]

but everybody is starting to ask for a line-array ! All riders that I have seen from bands comming from abroad are asking for some kind of line array.

It's one thing when a corporate client in a tall ballroom requests a line array and you give them a sub-compact system.

It's another thing when a band puts "line array" on their rider. These guys are used to 6 4888 hanging per side over 3 dual 18s.

The HDL20As are really really great. Even just 6 per side. Really great staked 4 up in a short ballroom or 6 tall in a bigger room with flying. Really good system for a DJ, a little band indoors at a polite event, for a single level theater... You just can't expect to put much of anything through them and be happy.

FWIW the last time I did a band on a sub compact system was a country band on 3 932 per side. You could get it loud for sure. But the kick and bass were anemic and the guitar sounded harsh. Ended up sounding like total trash even with the 12" drivers on the 932 that I think perform quite well all driven by itech HD 9000.

[Mac Kerr]

but everybody is starting to ask for a line-array ! All riders that I have seen from bands comming from abroad are asking for some kind of line array.

Are they asking for any of those models you listed? If yes, get that one, if no, don't get one of those.

Mac

[Chuck Simon]

Are they asking for any of those models you listed? If yes, get that one, if no, don't get one of those.

Mac

Really! You are never going to get a consensus here about the best choice.  This IS a business. Give the customer what they want(or at least what they think they want).

[Steve Ferreira]

Lots of variables to even give a proper answer. How much of a load can the PA wings handle?
When I first saw that list I just skipped over the 932 as 5 box hang is virtually useless as the top boxes will point into the sky.
I mixed on some 3x3s a long time ago and never had an issue with volume or getting good sound out of them, yes they were heavy and a pain to move around but they did the job well.
Can you maybe stretch that budget for maybe some 4883/4886?

[Peter Morris]

Hi all,

I am looking for a (line ) array system to use for an audience of Max 2000 people. Currently using 3 to 4 Apogee 3x3 per side, depending on the music style and venue.

I am looking at boxes between $2000 a $3000 a piece ( export pricing).

How ould you rank these options:
Planning on six box per side (all powered boxes)

RCF HDL20A
RCF NXL23
DAS Aero12A
DAS event210
JBL VRX932LAP
QSC KLA12
DBTechnologies T8

If you have any suggestion in the same price range that outshines these, please add.

Thanks for your support and patience


Renard from Curtacao

I can’t comment on the DAS boxes, but out of the rest, the T8’s are probably the best. However if I was looking to replace 3 X 3’s I would be looking at the T12’s.

I own several line arrays but the one that makes the most money is our T12/T8 rig.  I find that we are using 3 or 4 x T12 per side all the time. Where I need some down fill or even front fill I add some T8’s.

The db Tech will satisfy the rider looking for a line-array but for those looking for d&b J, V or L- acoustics may not be happy to accept db Tech.

FWIW T8's are a huge step up from the T4's.

I would also have a look at db Tech’s new VIO range - http://www.dbtechnologies.com/EN/Products/vio/vio_l210_p2871.aspx

It’s also interesting to note that only the T8 (& T12) that satisfies some the generally accepted line - array theory of driver size and spacing.

I also suspect the NXL23 and VIO because of the way the low frequency drivers are loaded will also work well.

[Tim McCulloch]

I can’t comment on the DAS boxes, but out of the rest, the T8’s are probably the best. However if I was looking to replace 3 X 3’s I would be looking at the T12’s.

I own several line arrays but the one that makes the most money is our T12/T8 rig.  I find that we are using 3 or 4 x T12 per side all the time. Where I need some down fill or even front fill I add some T8’s.

The db Tech will satisfy the rider looking for a line-array but for those looking for d&b J, V or L- acoustics may not be happy to accept db Tech.

FWIW T8's are a huge step up from the T4's.

I would also have a look at db Tech’s new VIO range - http://www.dbtechnologies.com/EN/Products/vio/vio_l210_p2871.aspx

It’s also interesting to note that only the T8 (& T12) that satisfies some the generally accepted line - array theory of driver size and spacing.

I also suspect the NXL23 and VIO because of the way the low frequency drivers are loaded will also work well.

I want to hear the VIO to see if DB fixed what I didn't like in the HDL20a.  RDnet control is a big plus, too.

In addition to a decent VerTec 4889/4887/4880 inventory we have 32 T4.  For a plastic line array that weighs almost nothing it's... okay.  You're right that the T8 sounds different and in a good way.  I've been intrigued by the T12 but haven't had any to play with.  They look like an "almost 4888" on paper.

[Guy Graham]

I want to hear the VIO to see if DB fixed what I didn't like in the HDL20a.  RDnet control is a big plus, too.

From those website pictures they look remarkably like the HDL20, both in terms of the driver layout and also the rigging. I've had good experience with that RCF box (though it's always been well deployed), but I agree that not having the network capability seemed like an oversight. Whilst the onboard array presets may work fine for most uses with an 8 - 12 box per side array, if you want to make any fine tuning adjustment once it's flown - it's not very practical.

I hadn't seen that link before, but those 3 x 18" subs look quite clever - I assume they truck pack more like a regular double 18".

However it's not the first time recently I've seen what appears to be a bass reflex design described as "semi" horn-loaded. Are they doing something clever with the ports, or venting the rear in a different fashion that makes them partially horn-loaded? Are the drivers at each side technically horn-loaded, due to their angled position?


Sent from my GT-I8160

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