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[Scott Olewiler]

Scott,

1. Good idea if on a separate mix or matrix out so the guitars can be mixed louder in the delays than up front where they are not needed.


Art

Yes, that's how I planned on doing it. I alway run delay speakers with a  separate mix. Only put in what's lacking.   Delay speakers are one of the few things I feel I'm really good at doing.

[Brian Jojade]

There is really no winning at the game if everyone participating isn't willing to make it happen.  The problem with guitar amps is that the placement of the amp will never be in a position as such that it covers the entire audience on its own.  However, it will cover SOME audience members.  So, unless you can design your PA to not have guitar coverage where the stage amp is covering, you will end up with an uneven mix.  The best solution is to get the guitar amp to cover as little of the audience as possible, doing whatever it takes to make that happen.  It's annoying, and a PITA to get some guitar players to understand the mess of sound that their beloved amp is creating, but if you can't  get them to cooperate, you won't get it to sound right.  It's a team sport, and we all need to work together to make it happen.

[Tim McCulloch]

There is really no winning at the game if everyone participating isn't willing to make it happen.  The problem with guitar amps is that the placement of the amp will never be in a position as such that it covers the entire audience on its own.  However, it will cover SOME audience members.  So, unless you can design your PA to not have guitar coverage where the stage amp is covering, you will end up with an uneven mix.  The best solution is to get the guitar amp to cover as little of the audience as possible, doing whatever it takes to make that happen.  It's annoying, and a PITA to get some guitar players to understand the mess of sound that their beloved amp is creating, but if you can't  get them to cooperate, you won't get it to sound right.  It's a team sport, and we all need to work together to make it happen.

And sometimes we have to accept it's a crap gig, make the best of it and cash the cheque.

[Tom Roche]

This issue probably bugged me the most when I ran sound in a venue (not a bar).  My MO was to establish rapport first.  I'm polite, offer suggestions (many already mentioned in this thread), and always let the band know I'm on their team and that my goal is to make them sound as best as possible.  Some were easy to work with and others not so much.  Sometimes there's nothing more you can do.

Upon further contemplation...  An approach that worked a few times was to talk to the other band members.  I've told them they sound great, but the guitar is a little too loud and drowning out the rest of the band.  It has worked.

[Scott Olewiler]

What about a sound shield in front of the amp?

Does anyone do this succesfully?  Or do the players complain about not being able to hear their tone? 

Usually I get "I can turn down if you can put it back through the monitor"  but then they really don't turn down enough to help the overall mix, or thye just turn it back up again. Shelds look like thye would be abetter solution but, do they cause more problesm?

[John L Nobile]

Apparently they need it loud for their tone. Trying to mess with their tone makes YOU the guy ruining the sound.

I've always suggested that they turn their amp sideways if they want to be heard in the mix. The guitar and bass player in the show have been doing that for years. I've tried doing that with other bands with mixed results. The nicer ones are open to give it a shot especially when you tell them that you can put them louder in the mains.

It's not a perfect solution but it does help.

[Jeff Bankston]

Some guitar amps have to be cranked up to produce the tone the guitar players want. My 3 Marshall JCM800 2205 amp have to be cranked to sound good , it's the way many of those tube amps were made. A friend has an old Ampeg tube guitar amp that has a chink-a-chink-a sound when you turn it way up.I would use a full stack and not connect the bottom speakers or put the cabinet on something to get it up in the air above the audience heads. Another idea would be to turn the cabinets around and have the speakers facing the stage and mic the guitar cabinets through the pa.

[Jamin Lynch]

A truly good musician knows how to play for the environment they are in. Guitarist, drummers bassists or whatever inst.

If you are on "11" and should be on "3" then you are not a good "all around" musician.

[Jeff Bankston]

A truly good musician knows how to play for the environment they are in. Guitarist, drummers bassists or whatever inst.

If you are on "11" and should be on "3" then you are not a good "all around" musician.

I dont think you understand guitar amps. Some "tube" guitar amps sound muddy and compressed and choked until they are cranked up and the power tubes are drivien hard. They could also bring a lower power tube amp to that club. As for your comment on drummers I have been playing since 1970. Drums and cymbals have to be hit with a certain force to sound good. Some drums are very loud due to the type and thickness of the wood. My 1980's all birch thick shell Tama Superstar drums are very loud and I dont hit hard. I am a rock drummer and "all around" really good drummer according to other musicians , recording and sound engineers.

If the amp has an effects loop you can plug a "gain" box into the loop and drive the power tubes so they make the tone at a lower volume. I have one on my home amp in the circle in the foto. I think i paid $30.00 for it on ebay.

[Jamin Lynch]

I dont think you understand guitar amps. Some "tube" guitar amps sound muddy and compressed and choked until they are cranked up and the power tubes are drivien hard. They could also bring a lower power tube amp to that club. As for your comment on drummers I have been playing since 1970. Drums and cymbals have to be hit with a certain force to sound good. Some drums are very loud due to the type and thickness of the wood. My 1980's all birch thick shell Tama Superstar drums are very loud and I dont hit hard. I am a rock drummer and "all around" really good drummer according to other musicians , recording and sound engineers.

If the amp has an effects loop you can plug a "gain" box into the loop and drive the power tubes so they make the tone at a lower volume. I have one on my home amp in the circle in the foto. I think i paid $30.00 for it on ebay.

I stand by my previous statement.

I've played drums since '64. Play the proper volume for the setting you are in.

Double stack Marshall for a small environment....HMMM what could the problem be?

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