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Author Topic: Loud Guitar Amps  (Read 20238 times)

Rob Gow

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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #90 on: April 22, 2016, 11:04:48 am »

you have to play for the room, play as a band, and use the proper tools. Most gigs I use a 1984 100W JCM800 into a 212 cabinet. I get my overdrive from a pedal so I don't  have to nut the amp. (Thank god) I get a decent sound in front of the stage, and let the PA fill the room. There's been other smaller gigs where I use a 30W Vox something or other, a practice amp really and it works out fine. 2 channels, and then I use the volume knob on the guitar for leads etc.

If I need more me, then I put more me in the monitor. Working together to keep stage levels reasonable always helps out the front end. Even though I'm not balls out in volume I can still get some of that sweet marshall feedback when needed. In the band I understand that it's not lead guitar all the time. Most times you sit in the mix until it's time to take a lead. Vocals are always king.



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Ned Ward

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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #91 on: April 22, 2016, 12:44:59 pm »

Rob - yep, pedals are the key to getting sounds other than clean at acceptable volume levels. My Fenders are all pretty clean, and I have 4 main pedals to get different sounds:
Barber Direct Drive - crunch
Paul Cochrane Timmy - Dirt on its own, lead paired with the Direct Drive
Keeley Fuzz head - fuzz lead paired with direct drive
Xotic EP Boost - paired with a delay for a slapback lead

With all of these, once the clean volume is set, I'll work to ensure the dirt and crunch tones are at the same level with the lead sounds not much louder, but enough to be the lead voice during solos.

Is my Barber Direct Drive the same tone as an overdriven amp? Probably not, but I like the sound, and like that I can have it at the volume needed for the gig. As I mentioned before, tilt-back legs and or a tilt-back amp stand for smaller amps really helps too.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #92 on: April 22, 2016, 02:56:40 pm »

+1 for Mr. Ned.
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David Buckley

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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #93 on: April 22, 2016, 04:47:05 pm »

The old guys got it, the young guys don't.
Many of the young guys understand that a guitar amp is actually far more trouble than its worth, and use modelers.  Many modern bands have no amps on stage at all.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #94 on: April 22, 2016, 05:09:05 pm »

Many of the young guys understand that a guitar amp is actually far more trouble than its worth, and use modelers.  Many modern bands have no amps on stage at all.

And many of them have "tone" that requires pass band EQ.  The amount of LF/HF present is simply stunning (and not in a good way).
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Ned Ward

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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #95 on: April 22, 2016, 08:16:28 pm »

David - while some of the pop bands (Katie Perry, etc.) guitar players are using Kempers or Fractal Audio or the Eleven Rack, there are still some of the "young guys" like Plain White T's rocking amps - but through a Palmer PDI-03 load box/speaker simulator. Depends on what kind of a sound you're looking for. Cookie Monster Metal? Great, get a modeler. Rock? Amp.

Tim - it wasn't until I got the free Blue Cat Frequency Analyzer plug in that I started finding horrible amounts of LF and HF in modeled guitar amps, some of my older synths, etc. Not so much from an e906 in front of a guitar cab.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #96 on: April 22, 2016, 10:43:55 pm »

David - while some of the pop bands (Katie Perry, etc.) guitar players are using Kempers or Fractal Audio or the Eleven Rack, there are still some of the "young guys" like Plain White T's rocking amps - but through a Palmer PDI-03 load box/speaker simulator. Depends on what kind of a sound you're looking for. Cookie Monster Metal? Great, get a modeler. Rock? Amp.

Tim - it wasn't until I got the free Blue Cat Frequency Analyzer plug in that I started finding horrible amounts of LF and HF in modeled guitar amps, some of my older synths, etc. Not so much from an e906 in front of a guitar cab.

Some of the HF is plainly audible with a mic in front of whatever gtr amp they're using for on-stage presence.  They can't hear the >2kHz stuff coming off the cone because it's beaming right past their knees.  The amount of buzzing bees harmonics is astounding.  Some of the players have mic'd the amp or listened to the line out with headphones and tweaked stuff and those are the most natural sounding of the models.  The stock settings seem to be the primary issue, esp when used with "typical" (unmodeled) guitar tone settings on their stage amp.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 11:00:48 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

John Penkala

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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #97 on: April 23, 2016, 12:37:47 am »

Some of the HF is plainly audible with a mic in front of whatever gtr amp they're using for on-stage presence.  They can't hear the >2kHz stuff coming off the cone because it's beaming right past their knees.  The amount of buzzing bees harmonics is astounding.  Some of the players have mic'd the amp or listened to the line out with headphones and tweaked stuff and those are the most natural sounding of the models.  The stock settings seem to be the primary issue, esp when used with "typical" (unmodeled) guitar tone settings on their stage amp.

+1

I often high pass and low pass guitars for this exact reason.
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #98 on: April 23, 2016, 02:29:53 am »

One other issue I had at this gig was that none of these guys could control the guitar feeding back thru their amps. I recorded the entire event and hardly any of the tracks are usable for this single reason. Even if I remove the squealing from the guitar tracks digitally it still appears as background on other tracks.  As a guitarist, I enjoy a little controlled feedback as much as the next guy but I would think that if my guitar squealed every time i turned the wrong way I would just turn the F**k down!

I did manage to savage this song so far. I need to remix this a bit more but you can hear I did have some talent in the headliner:

http://4thstreetsoundrental.com/Kasper_FeelYourLove.wav

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Ned Ward

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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #99 on: April 23, 2016, 12:48:19 pm »

Scott - listened to some of your other sound samples on your site - nice.

From what I'm hearing on this VH cover (besides timing issues) is pinch harmonics and not runaway feedback. With the gain settings dimed on their amps (what it sounds like - gain all the way up, no mids, no master) it's setting the amp up for feedback. If you could, it would be interesting to hear some before and after snippets of the guitars alone panned L-R to see what you had to deal with.
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Re: Loud Guitar Amps
« Reply #99 on: April 23, 2016, 12:48:19 pm »


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