ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: 3 vocal mics????  (Read 9538 times)

Doug Johnson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 270
  • Rhoadesville, VA
Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2016, 04:24:14 pm »

A friend`s father-in-law was a soundman and provided a pa system for The Experience at The Mosque in Richmond, Va in 1968.  I don't remember off hand what the pa he provided.  The story goes the Jimi walked up to the vocal mic and went, "check, check...No man, this won`t do."  Walked over to his guitar case and pulled out a microphone and plugged into one of his guitar amps and used that for the show.
Logged

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2016, 04:26:30 pm »

And, scarily, WEM, and, I believe, Charlie, are still around: [website]

There is a lot of history there, that mentions some of this stuff.
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9056
  • Atlanta GA
Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2016, 05:45:04 pm »

A friend`s father-in-law was a soundman and provided a pa system for The Experience at The Mosque in Richmond, Va in 1968.  I don't remember off hand what the pa he provided.  The story goes the Jimi walked up to the vocal mic and went, "check, check...No man, this won`t do."  Walked over to his guitar case and pulled out a microphone and plugged into one of his guitar amps and used that for the show.
I am not saying something one way or the other, but it could be that he did not feel there was enough level coming out of the PA.  But he felt his guitar amp mic was louder.

The problem is that he could have been on the backside of the PA, while in front of his guitar amp.

So the guitar amp "seemed louder" to him.

But it may not have been out in the audience.

This is based purely on a guess and no actual experience with him or the systems of the day.

So take it for what it is.  An idea only
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Steve M Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3328
  • Isle of Wight - England
Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2016, 02:47:27 am »

And, scarily, WEM, and, I believe, Charlie, are still around

Charlie left us last year.


Steve.
Logged

TrevorMilburn

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2016, 06:06:11 am »

That exact setup was quite common when I started going to gigs as a yoof, and I can assure you half a dozen columns a side at full clip was quite loud in small venues.  It wasn't what one would call "undistorted", but it was loud.  The first device was usually a bandmaster, or an audiomaster for the upmarket folks, and then a stack of the 100W slaves.  Just for vocal mics, and a couple of mics on the kit.

Even louder was the folks who drove the WEM columns with Hiwatt 200W PA tops and slaves, another very popular combination.
I actually 'cut my teeth' on WEM PA systems (Festival stacks/4x12 columns/Vendetta columns/Audiomasters/100w slaves etc) in the early seventies, and yes, they could get loud in a small venue as I can confirm from personal experience as a roadie & from the dozens(100s?) of bands I saw using them in the sixties/seventies . As a spectator, in 1971 I was at a Mott The Hoople gig at the Lyceum Theatre in London and was stunned to hear Ian Hunter announce that they were using  'kilowatt' WEM rig - the first time I had heard such a large system indoors. However, the RAH, as well as having almost 2 1/2 times the seating capacity is several times larger in all directions and these tiny PA systems simply didn't cut the mustard. I can understand why Hendrix simply turned up his guitar amps to 'kill' setting to make himself heard. The same would have happened at the Cream farewell concert and many others at the RAH where 5 or 600 watt systems were the norm at the time.
Logged

Bob Leonard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6807
  • Boston, MA USA
Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2016, 06:56:45 am »

I actually 'cut my teeth' on WEM PA systems (Festival stacks/4x12 columns/Vendetta columns/Audiomasters/100w slaves etc) in the early seventies, and yes, they could get loud in a small venue as I can confirm from personal experience as a roadie & from the dozens(100s?) of bands I saw using them in the sixties/seventies . As a spectator, in 1971 I was at a Mott The Hoople gig at the Lyceum Theatre in London and was stunned to hear Ian Hunter announce that they were using  'kilowatt' WEM rig - the first time I had heard such a large system indoors. However, the RAH, as well as having almost 2 1/2 times the seating capacity is several times larger in all directions and these tiny PA systems simply didn't cut the mustard. I can understand why Hendrix simply turned up his guitar amps to 'kill' setting to make himself heard. The same would have happened at the Cream farewell concert and many others at the RAH where 5 or 600 watt systems were the norm at the time.

This is what was done during that period of time, and the very reason 100 watt guitar amps came to be. 4x12 columns were common on both sides of the pond and the gear of the day filled a specific purpose. Need louder guitar? Buy a bigger amp. Need louder vocals? Add more amplifiers and speakers. No rhyme or reason, just more was better.
Logged
BOSTON STRONG........
Proud Vietnam Veteran

I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2016, 06:32:01 am »

...these tiny PA systems simply didn't cut the mustard.

When I finally got to spectate at a "big" venue (Liverpool Stadium), which would be March 1973, Black Sabbath were able to be heard loudly, if not hi-fi clearly, through a visually impressive pile of bins and horns.  The days of 4x12 PAs in real venues was already gone.  But the lighting...

What this reminisce through the 70s reminds us is that PA systems have changed almost beyond recognition, we can now have all of clear, loud and control.  And many a weekend warrior of today has a more capable system than the supergroups of yesteryear.
Logged

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2016, 07:38:24 am »

Singing though guitar amps using high impedance mics was common in the '60s.  Somewhere in the early '70s things migrated quickly from columns or a couple of A7s to piles of bins and horns.  Which grew to ever bigger and bigger piles.  As people relied less on backlines to make most of the noise, that pushed mixers to ever more channels to handle mic'ing everything on stage.
Logged

Hyam Sosnow

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 48
Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2016, 06:10:58 pm »

When I finally got to spectate at a "big" venue (Liverpool Stadium), which would be March 1973, Black Sabbath were able to be heard loudly, if not hi-fi clearly, through a visually impressive pile of bins and horns.  The days of 4x12 PAs in real venues was already gone.  But the lighting...

What this reminisce through the 70s reminds us is that PA systems have changed almost beyond recognition, we can now have all of clear, loud and control.  And many a weekend warrior of today has a more capable system than the supergroups of yesteryear.

When I saw Cream during their 2nd tour (3/68) it was at a 2500-seat indoor venue; I was standing about 25 feet from the stage, directly in front of Jack Bruce. The sound system had a single Altec A4 on each side of the stage (I remember noting the 2 x 15" drivers and the 2 x 4 multicell horn). The vocals were mic'd (including an announcement mic for Ginger Baker) and there was a single mic in front of the drum kit. When Clapton came on stage he ran his hand along the tops of the knobs on both of his Marshall stacks, turning everything up all the way. When the band hit the first chord of Tales of Brave Ulysses it was so loud the air felt like it had turned into cottage cheese—the sound was physically tangible. The vocals kept up but Baker had to hit awfully hard to compete. My reaction was as close as I've ever come to having a religious experience; it was life-changing.

Fast-forward to Cream's farewell tour (10/68). They appeared at the Forum, which is an 18,000-seat venue.  The sound system consisted of several Altec Voice Of The Theater bass bins and a couple of multicells on each side of the stage. In addition to the vocals, the amps and drums were close-miked. The first song (White Room) was quiet enough that I could talk to my girlfriend without shouting (we were 10 rows back, dead center on the floor). After the song the entire audience erupted in a single voice: "Turn it UP!!!" Although they did get things dialed-in over the next song or two, the sound never came close to the impact and immediacy that it had in the smaller venue.

This was the first big concert tour to consistently play in such large indoor venues (at that time Cream was the most popular touring band in the world) and the sound system technology available at the time was completely inadequate for the task. This tour was really the birth of the modern concert sound industry, both for gear manufacturers and providers.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2016, 06:10:58 pm »


Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.048 seconds with 23 queries.