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Author Topic: 3 vocal mics????  (Read 9554 times)

Ivan Beaver

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3 vocal mics????
« on: April 15, 2016, 08:43:37 pm »

I know we have had discussions about 2 vocal mics used in old concerts.

But what about 3?  Maybe the idea predates Dave Rats idea about using 2 different mics and processing them differently in order to help minimize the interference between 2 speaker setups.

And the 3rd is for recording?

This is Hendrix at Royal Albert Hall.
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Ivan Beaver
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Steve M Smith

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Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2016, 03:50:37 am »

I would guess, FOH and monitors using two separate systems and a third for recording.

Or possibly PA, film recording and audio recording/broadcast.  Looks quite a mess though.

And whilst I'm here, I saw this a couple of days ago which reminded me of your signature line about easy to understand wrong answers...




Steve.
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Patrick Scott

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Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2016, 04:27:55 am »

My personal questomit would be the 2 mics taped together are a la Gratefull dead style (Meyer sound Wall of sound era) 1 mic in polarity the other is out of polarity giving more gain before feedback as the out of polarity mic reduces unwanted noise in the system by cancelling out sound that is not directly going into the main mic.

as for the one up on top it's probably a recording or additional fx mic

Patrick Scott
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Roland Clarke

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Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2016, 04:39:57 am »

My personal questomit would be the 2 mics taped together are a la Gratefull dead style (Meyer sound Wall of sound era) 1 mic in polarity the other is out of polarity giving more gain before feedback as the out of polarity mic reduces unwanted noise in the system by cancelling out sound that is not directly going into the main mic.

as for the one up on top it's probably a recording or additional fx mic

Patrick Scott
Projecson canada

Ultimately still comes down to the laws of physics.  Most microphones are doing this anyway, either using 2 diaphrams or more commonly, "controlled leakage", that produces the familiar, polar patterns we use today.

I've never seen anything from Dave Rat regarding using of two microphones, processed differently, however, I would think that the comb- filtering would be horrific enough to negate any benefit in the real world. 

Our industry is full of gear/artist/room specific, compromises, trying to reduce additional compromises with dubious benefits is probably not the smart way to go. 
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Micheal Schriner

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Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2016, 08:10:36 am »

A lot of these pics are from the days when guitar players were actually using their back line amps to get their sound out front. Hendrix was well know to use 2 to 3 100 watt stacks with everything dimed. The stage volume had to be crazy.  Would be interesting to know what all was done to work around this.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2016, 09:13:44 am »



And whilst I'm here, I saw this a couple of days ago which reminded me of your signature line about easy to understand wrong answers...




Steve.

Thanks-That will be going up on my door
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 09:27:16 am by Ivan Beaver »
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Ivan Beaver
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2016, 09:19:09 am »

My personal questomit would be the 2 mics taped together are a la Gratefull dead style (Meyer sound Wall of sound era) 1 mic in polarity the other is out of polarity giving more gain before feedback as the out of polarity mic reduces unwanted noise in the system by cancelling out sound that is not directly going into the main mic.

as for the one up on top it's probably a recording or additional fx mic

Patrick Scott
Projecson canada
I could be wrong-but I don't think Meyer was involved with the wall of sound.

As far as I know-he came in After that era.

The problem with the "wall of sound" type micing was that the mics had to be the same and you had to sing very strongly into a SINGLE mic-not in the "general area" of the mics.

In this case the mics are all different.  We can't tell what mic is under the windscreen, but the screen WILL change the response-making it not match the others-so the idea will not work.

I HIGHLY doubt one of the mics is a effects mic.  Effects were not really used back in those days-live anyway.
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Ivan Beaver
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2016, 09:24:24 am »


I've never seen anything from Dave Rat regarding using of two microphones, processed differently, however, I would think that the comb- filtering would be horrific enough to negate any benefit in the real world. 

 
Here is a link to the video I was talking about.

He talks about the using multiple mics towards the end.

While I agree with with most of what he is saying, the concept of using 2 different kick mics-eqed differently and one sent to the left and the other to the right side of the PA seems crazy to me.

It would sound different depending on where you are listening at.

On the left would be one sound- on the right a different sound and in the middle a mix of the two.

But I have to admit I have never tried it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHjdh-Vka-g
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Ivan Beaver
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Bob Leonard

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Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2016, 11:39:00 am »

Hendrix use of three (3) mics for this show is pretty well documented. At the time, and without Hendrix knowledge, his then manager decided to turn this gig into a live recording session AND a recorded for television appearance. There was so much uncontrolled feedback between Jimi's 100 Marshall stacks and FOH that separate systems were used for FOH and the recording/TV. Here's some info from and old Guitar Player magazine article;

" Following the European tour, Jimi flew to New York City to oversee the construction of his studio, Electric Lady. While the trip gave him a reprieve from his problems with the Experience, the time away only served to exacerbate the tensions between them. There were further problems awaiting him when he returned to London. On February 17, while rehearsing at the Albert Hall, Hendrix became aggravated by the constant feedback created between his guitar and the PA system. The mobile recording unit hired for the event was also experiencing electronic interference that would make the recordings unusable.

Hendrix placed a call to Chas Chandler, his former manager, and asked him to come for assistance. “It was a shambles,” Chandler told John McDermott in his book, Hendrix: Setting the Record Straight. “I ended up running both shows for him, trying to get everything right. I hadn’t been ‘hired,’ I was there to help out a friend.”

Although the recording equipment problems with were worked out, no one could guarantee that Jimi’s guitar wouldn’t suffer from feedback. To minimize the possibility, two separate sound systems were used: one for the venue and another for the mobile recording unit. This is why Jimi can be seen singing into three microphones in footage from the concerts."
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2016, 01:22:44 pm »

Hendrix use of three (3) mics for this show is pretty well documented. At the time, and without Hendrix knowledge, his then manager decided to turn this gig into a live recording session AND a recorded for television appearance. There was so much uncontrolled feedback between Jimi's 100 Marshall stacks and FOH that separate systems were used for FOH and the recording/TV. Here's some info from and old Guitar Player magazine article;

" Following the European tour, Jimi flew to New York City to oversee the construction of his studio, Electric Lady. While the trip gave him a reprieve from his problems with the Experience, the time away only served to exacerbate the tensions between them. There were further problems awaiting him when he returned to London. On February 17, while rehearsing at the Albert Hall, Hendrix became aggravated by the constant feedback created between his guitar and the PA system. The mobile recording unit hired for the event was also experiencing electronic interference that would make the recordings unusable.

Hendrix placed a call to Chas Chandler, his former manager, and asked him to come for assistance. “It was a shambles,” Chandler told John McDermott in his book, Hendrix: Setting the Record Straight. “I ended up running both shows for him, trying to get everything right. I hadn’t been ‘hired,’ I was there to help out a friend.”

Although the recording equipment problems with were worked out, no one could guarantee that Jimi’s guitar wouldn’t suffer from feedback. To minimize the possibility, two separate sound systems were used: one for the venue and another for the mobile recording unit. This is why Jimi can be seen singing into three microphones in footage from the concerts."
Thanks Bob-but that accounts for TWO mics-live and recording.

I wonder about the THIRD one????????????
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: 3 vocal mics????
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2016, 01:22:44 pm »


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