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Author Topic: ideal mix position  (Read 5809 times)

Clayton Luckie

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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2005, 05:27:25 pm »

Mike McCloskey wrote on Wed, 02 November 2005 14:32

And a fireman's pole... Shocked



I always liked the idea of a zipline.

cl
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Andy Peters

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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2005, 05:28:09 pm »

Mike McCloskey wrote on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:32

And a fireman's pole... Shocked


You need a Batpole ... so you can go back UP to the mix position!

-a
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"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."

Steve Swaffer

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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2005, 10:04:20 pm »

I do not consider myself an expert by any means, but we moved our mixing location to an off center raised (about 10') balcony about 4 years ago, to give more room for people on the main floor.  Most would consider our situation a nightmarish auditorium was built in the 1860's to be used as a "long" auditorium, converted in the 1910's to be a "wide" auditorium and I am clear over in the corner.  Our music is southern gospel style but the only instruments we use are a piano and organ.  That being said I get frequent complements on the quality of the mix-often from family that sings and has made numerously studio recorded albums.  I do not say that to boast, simply to say it can be done.  But I have walked the auditorium more times than I care to count and know the difference between what I hear and what they hear and have been mixing here for 12 years.  I love the visibility-especially during our annual Christmas play and other special programs.  It all comes down to priorities and the big picture.
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Steve

Greg Hertfelder

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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2005, 10:27:13 pm »

A lot of good comments so far, but few words have been said about distance from the stage for logistical purposes. Placing the mixing console in the balcony creates great difficulty when the console operator has to hustle to the platform (and back) 2 minutes before service time. Most churches don't have union stage crew sitting around on headset, waiting for orders, and so the console operator often has to abandon the post and hustle to the platform for troubleshooting.

The console should be located about 1/2-to-2/3 the depth of the sanctuary/house away from the platform, and away from the back wall (to avoid perception-altering acoustical reflections). I agree with Tom that 2/3rds back is the most common, but some operations have had success with counter-sinking the console between a semi-circular cross aisle and the platform, which remedies of a number of sightline issues, for both the console operator and the congregation seated behind. Tricky stuff, architect...you have your work cut out for you.

Its nice to position the console near an exit, to minimize distractions when the inevitable rest room need arises. Also nice is a network of hallways that permit the operator or techs to enter the platform discretely from the back or side (without walking down an aisle), to minimize distraction.

Video control can be anywhere in the facility, in an room acoustically sealed off from the sanctuary to keep the intercom headset signal-to-noise ratio optimum. The same with the lighting control, and cue-calling lighting directors.
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David Stagl

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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2005, 05:27:16 pm »

We just refit our sound system which included moving the mix position from a balcony down to the floor.  Here are some of the problems we had before we moved:

- The mix position was off-axis from the speakers so it was like mixing under a blanket

- The tech loft wasn't very deep so the engineer was standing only 4-5 feet away from a wall where the bass builds up

- The trip from the loft down to the floor can take you a minute or so if you're running.  Going down to listen and then back up to make changes isn't easy.  Getting to the stage takes slightly longer so troubleshooting could bring rehearsals to a halt.

We're in a much better listening position now, and the room is tuned so that the only reason you need to leave FOH is to make sure everything is working.  I would settle for a balcony mix position as long as I have a set of delay speakers pointed at me that replicate the sound the congregation is hearing.

In a professional application, I don't think it's unreasonable for an engineer to figure out how the room sounds and compensate at the mix position, but in a church setting when you're dealing more with volunteers and non-professionals I think the odds of this really happening are much less.  My philosophy for church sound is to make things as easy as possible for volunteers to operate the equipment and achieve good results.  That means a priority is getting the guys to hear exactly what the congregation hears.


You can see pictures of our upgrade process at the flickr link below; photos of the new system aren't up, yet, but should be in the next couple weeks.  You can also read all about the upgrade at my blog:  goingto11.blogspot.com.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46684504@N00/sets/854845/

Dave

Clayton Luckie

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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2005, 06:57:48 pm »

Is the Venue console new?  Do you like it?

cl
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Bob Watkins

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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2005, 08:12:30 pm »

There are many opinions on this. I have worked in both situations. I liked having the ability to stand in the balcony and can walk and work without blocking view. I can almost guarantee that you will not have good coverage if the balcony is only being designed for sound and video. I would work with the contractor first and see if they are aiming speakers at your location. If not, you can invest into a signal delay and take a main feed and connect it to a pair of near field monitors. set the delay for 0.1 sec for every 100 feet you are from the main speakers.

This works, but is not ideal. Sitting on the main floor is the best, but you can block views and will get static forever on blocking views (or two close for complaints).

If it were me, I would take the near fields and the balcony over sitting in the congregation. It is a trade off either way.

Also look at other churchs in your area that may have a similar design and see how they handle the sound position. Ask them what they would change, if anything.

Good luck.
BW
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David Stagl

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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2005, 12:50:18 pm »

Clayton Luckie wrote on Fri, 04 November 2005 17:57

Is the Venue console new?  Do you like it?

cl


The Digidesign Venue is new.  We received it and set it up about a month before we started running it, and I had been working with the software for it for quite a while before that so I feel confident in saying that I pretty much know the thing inside and out at this point.  I love mixing on the desk.  I've personally mixed on it for about six weeks now, and right now it would be my first choice.  I don't think this is really the thread to go into this on, so if anyone would like to know anything about the console just PM me.

Dave

Tom Young

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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2005, 01:39:25 pm »

Nice post.

Please use your real name in the future. See board rules.

Thanks
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Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
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Ferd Regier

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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2005, 09:01:57 am »

Has anyone in a poor mixing position just suspended an ambient mic in the ideal position and used it to monitor the mix (through headphones)?
I'm an a rear corner (bass issues, etc.) and have been thinking of doing this.
Ferd
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Re: ideal mix position
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2005, 09:01:57 am »


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