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Author Topic: minimize noise at 80m from source  (Read 8667 times)

GeorgesAOUN

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Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2016, 04:46:22 am »

We can hear mostly the music,

Will a distributed system using smaller speakers (8 inches) work better than less quantity of bigger ones (12 or 15 inches)?

what should we focus on once selecting the speakers for this task? the DB or the wattage?

thanks,

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2016, 11:06:02 am »

We can hear mostly the music,

Will a distributed system using smaller speakers (8 inches) work better than less quantity of bigger ones (12 or 15 inches)?

what should we focus on once selecting the speakers for this task? the DB or the wattage?

thanks,
The best way is to use a distributed system of drivers that are less than 1/4" diameter.

That way the sound at the hotel will be COMPLETELY gone.

Now, to be honest, not all of your customers will want to be wearing the headphones----------- ;)

But it is not the size-nor the dB or the wattage of the drivers that will solve your problem.  Unless you just turn it down a lot (the dB level). 
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Keith Broughton

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Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2016, 12:11:06 pm »

As Ivan says, power and size really doesn't have anything to do with it.
If you have an area filled with sound at a high level, it will leak out to surrounding places.
Your best bet is to use speakers with a lot of forward control  of the sound and face them away from the hotel side.
As for the bass frequencies, you could use a cardioid array to reduce sound to the hotel side.
It won't be perfect but might help.
The problem with sound complaints is that they may not just be "it's too loud" and can often be just "I can hear it and it bugs me 'cause I don't like the music"
Tough nut to crack.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2016, 12:42:26 pm »


Your best bet is to use speakers with a lot of forward control of the sound and face them away from the hotel side.
As for the bass frequencies, you could use a cardioid array to reduce sound to the hotel side.

And the only way to do that is with LARGE horns. 

A very common misconception is that line arrays do this.  Actually they are HORRIBLE at providing front to rear control.  They can provide vertical control (with a number of strong lobes still coming off at various angles), but if you look at REAL data/measurements/balloons, you will see almost as much energy coming off of the BACKSIDE as you do the front (except at the highest freq).

When inside a room, this can causes lot of additional reflected energy to bounce around.  And outside, it does nothing to reduce the energy behind the array.

A large horn-with all of the devices mounted on it-so they are affecting the pattern, WILL be quieter behind it than in front of it.  In many cases MUCH quieter.

As usual, it depends on the size and the pattern of the horn.

For a given size-a wider pattern horn will control down lower.

So if you combine a large horn, with directional subs, the energy behind the system could be much less.

Even putting "barn doors" on regular cabinets can help to reduce the energy behind them.  However-if these are not part of the design, the sound out front could be compromised.  But that might be OK as long as the energy behind is reduced.
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Ivan Beaver
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Keith Broughton

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Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2016, 02:00:22 pm »

the sound out front could be compromised. 
It's a DJ...some compromise won't be noticed  ;D
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David Buckley

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Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2016, 06:38:55 pm »

Can you put the speakers above the dancefloor facing down?
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GeorgesAOUN

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Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2016, 03:31:31 am »

Thank you for your feedback,

can you please advise about the Horns, since it's new to us.
Is there any link or pictures on the web to check how it is installed and how it works so we can make a test.

thank you for your continuous support,
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GeorgesAOUN

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Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2016, 03:37:23 am »

Can you put the speakers above the dancefloor facing down?

yes we have a bridge at 5 meters height above the dancefloor, we tried installing 2 x 12 inch 'Betta three' speakers facing down, it didn't help.
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2016, 06:12:41 am »

And the only way to do that is with LARGE horns.

Not the only way.
Numerical optimization with MLA will create the wanted coverage at the listening plain and minimize spill outside of that by creating areas of non-audience where acoustic energy is cancelled (typical target for reduction is 20dB/SPL below mix position goal).  You can also create an area of greater reduction (hard avoid, typically targeted at 30dB/SPL below the mix position SPL target). 
Sub-bass directivity can be accomplished by utilizing either cardioid or combination cardioid, broadside array layouts as Keith suggested.  Obviously that directivity will not stop reflections from the building itself.

Overall control ability for non-audience and hard avoid depends on the number of band specific elements being optimized.

I have a feeling that this would be out of the budget range for this project but I could be wrong.

Lee
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Lee Buckalew
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2016, 12:58:14 pm »

Not the only way.
Numerical optimization with MLA will create the wanted coverage at the listening plain and minimize spill outside of that by creating areas of non-audience where acoustic energy is cancelled (typical target for reduction is 20dB/SPL below mix position goal).  You can also create an area of greater reduction (hard avoid, typically targeted at 30dB/SPL below the mix position SPL target). 
Sub-bass directivity can be accomplished by utilizing either cardioid or combination cardioid, broadside array layouts as Keith suggested.  Obviously that directivity will not stop reflections from the building itself.

Overall control ability for non-audience and hard avoid depends on the number of band specific elements being optimized.

I have a feeling that this would be out of the budget range for this project but I could be wrong.

Lee
This might be of interest

http://www.sseaudiogroup.com/write/PDF%20Library/PDF%20Reports/VC-SSE-MLA-K1-TEST.pdf
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: minimize noise at 80m from source
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2016, 12:58:14 pm »


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