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[Nathan Riddle]

Fire sensors have to be heat based, with sprinklers, rather than particle based.   That's not a weakness of the Radiance or other haze or fog machines, rather a weakness of the fire sensors.

I beg to differ. Different haze machines, both water and oil based, will have a different particle density which will affect the sensors differently.

I purport that in general 'crackers' or oil based haze machines that compress the liquid to vaporize, rather than heat, create a much smaller particle size which allows for a better 'look' and also won't fool the fire sensors as easily.

I would also purport that a heat sensor only type fire alarm system is less safe than a heat & particle sensor system or particle only system type.

In my personal experience I can haze a room with a oil based haze far hazier (though it might take awhile) than a water based hazer before the alarm system is set off (though both amounts are fairly heavy and not necessary for a proper lighting setup).

At any rate, sorry to derail your thread OP. Your title is 'water' for a reason. I assume you've already decided on the type of liquid medium.

Radiance is a great hazer, though I think its more of a 'fazer' than a true hazer (opinion), it still works good for the price.

[Noah D Mitchell]

I beg to differ. Different haze machines, both water and oil based, will have a different particle density which will affect the sensors differently.

I purport that in general 'crackers' or oil based haze machines that compress the liquid to vaporize, rather than heat, create a much smaller particle size which allows for a better 'look' and also won't fool the fire sensors as easily.

I would also purport that a heat sensor only type fire alarm system is less safe than a heat & particle sensor system or particle only system type.

In my personal experience I can haze a room with a oil based haze far hazier (though it might take awhile) than a water based hazer before the alarm system is set off (though both amounts are fairly heavy and not necessary for a proper lighting setup).

At any rate, sorry to derail your thread OP. Your title is 'water' for a reason. I assume you've already decided on the type of liquid medium.

Radiance is a great hazer, though I think its more of a 'fazer' than a true hazer (opinion), it still works good for the price.

On the subject of fire sensors - in our new venue (5 weeks from completion) we asked the fire alarm vendor for something safe that would not give us false alarms. We ended up with multi-criteria sensors from silent knight. They detect particles, heat, CO, and heat rise speed. Between the different criteria it makes a decision whether to alarm, and the curves can be adjusted (to my knowledge).


We had them set up a test system with two sensors on the ceiling in 400sf room and the Radiance on full for 30m. It was an immense amount of haze, couldn't see the guy standing ten feet away with the lights on, and no false alarms.


There's a YouTube video of this sensor being tested while introducing different stimuli.


FWIW

[Nathan Riddle]

On the subject of fire sensors - in our new venue (5 weeks from completion) we asked the fire alarm vendor for something safe that would not give us false alarms. We ended up with multi-criteria sensors from silent knight. They detect particles, heat, CO, and heat rise speed. Between the different criteria it makes a decision whether to alarm, and the curves can be adjusted (to my knowledge).

We had them set up a test system with two sensors on the ceiling in 400sf room and the Radiance on full for 30m. It was an immense amount of haze, couldn't see the guy standing ten feet away with the lights on, and no false alarms.

There's a YouTube video of this sensor being tested while introducing different stimuli.

FWIW

That's great! I'm glad you have a room that doesn't care what haze you use!

I think you meant CO [I might be wrong though, CO2/halon fire suppression do exist.]

I think the newer sensors have been improving for detecting smoke particles verses haze particles which is great for newer venues.

I'm mainly trying to document my experience with my venue which was built ~15yrs ago now. Older sensors don't typically like water based fog/haze (at least that I've experimented with).

[Noah D Mitchell]

That's great! I'm glad you have a room that doesn't care what haze you use!

I think you meant CO [I might be wrong though, CO2/halon fire suppression do exist.]

Ah yes, thanks for catching that. Fixed...

[Jay Barracato]

I'm mainly trying to document my experience with my venue which was built ~15yrs ago now. Older sensors don't typically like water based fog/haze (at least that I've experimented with).

I have found the opposite. Oil based may take a touch longer to set off the first time but gets progressively worse as oil builds up on the sensor.

At least with water based, that trigger point is not constantly changing.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[J Levene]

I'm looking at getting a water-based hazer. I'm looking at the Ultratec Radiance and the Martin Jem. Any recommendations, or alternatives I should consider?  The largest space I'm likely to be in is a proscenium stage 44' x 28' deep, and 44' to the grid.  Approximately 10' or 12' wings.  Thanks for your input.

In the UK, we go with Unique 2, just because most know it and want it.

[John L Nobile]

I'm finding water based haze is pretty useless in my room. It dissiptes much too fast and never covers the whole stage.It might work in a small room but I'm sticking with oil based. Even dispersion and it lasts.

[Terry Martin]

Old thread, but just read your post.  So I looked up my last order of Froggy's - Sept 2013! 

I am just now thinking of ordering another gallon, as I have about 1/3 gallon remaining.  LOL.

I'll just add my +3 here. We have a Radiance in a venue that get's used weekly - haze on for 3-4 hours per week. I just went to reorder my 'Froggy's Neutronic Haze Fluid' and Amazon tells me my last order (of just one bottle) was January of 2014. It's remarkable how much life you get out of your fluid with this machine.

[Nate Armstrong]

I use to own the Radiance, Nice unit, Barley uses any fluid so very affordable. small and light weight but built well. My issue was the lowest setting was still to powerful for small clubs.  (3-400 capacity ) It was like a constant fog machine of sorts.

I and my partner both have the martin K1's for a while now.  they have been great. the self cleaning is awesome. it has a battery built in. been like tanks so far. and the particles are very nice. fluid is a little hight but not the highest. They have a smaller unit now as well

2cents

[Len Zenith Jr]

My issue was the lowest setting was still to powerful for small clubs.  (3-400 capacity ) It was like a constant fog machine of sorts.

1/5th fluid, 4/5th's distilled water, I just eyeball it. Takes the output way down and saves a bunch of money too. I've been running this way for 3 years now as like you said, way too much output even on the lowest setting. Sometimes I get lazy and just use tap water but then you have to clean out the heat exchanger every tank load depending on how hard your water is.

[ProSoundWeb Community]