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Author Topic: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase  (Read 9374 times)

Adamn Dumbster

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Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« on: April 03, 2016, 09:48:22 pm »

I operate a production company in Humboldt, CA. We setup EDM events and are about to invest in a Danley Rig. Events range from 8-24 hours nonstop with high SPL indoors and outdoors. I've already made contact with a dealer who gave me a quote. We're going to be getting:

x4 DHB218
x4 SH50T
x2 SM100M (DJ booth monitor)
x2 THmini ("     "     ")

The amplifiers that the dealer suggested were a single DNA20K4 for all 4 subs (2ohm@5000W), and two DNA10K4's to run the tops and booth monitors.

The DNA20K seems to be fine with running all 4 subs, same with the 10K running the monitors; but I'm concerned with the DNA10K and the SH50s. The SH50s operate at 1000Wcont.@4ohms but the 10K only puts out 1300W RMS.

300W doesn't seem like enough headroom for these beastly loudspeakers especially since we are going to be bumping the system for long periods of time. The dealer assured me that it will run the tops fine, but the DNA20K would be a way better fit at 2600W@4ohms correct?

Beyond that how does our system look? Eventually planning to add x4 more DBH218s when the capital is there.

Any personal input/tips are welcomed  :)


 
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2016, 09:53:44 pm »

.... if your dealer isn't an idiot, you should have a good rig. Dealers don't make money from pissed off customers! A quick call to Danley in the morning would probably yield some solid results. I've not called them myself, but the impression I get here on the board is that they'll answer the phone and give you the straight poop.

-r
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John Rutirasiri

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Re: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2016, 10:16:40 pm »

Any personal input/tips are welcomed  :)

I have a Danley rig and use it for EDM shows several times a year.  I have to question why you would want SH50's if SPL is what you're after?  Why not 4x SH46, which will give you twice the output? 

As an stereo freak I wanted the SH50 for its better fidelity, but for EDM, that might actually work against you -- they don't want clean!  They want LOUD!  Not that the SH46 is not clean -- it is a mighty fine sounding box.

As for the amps, everyone has their favorites.  I use Itech 9000 and 12000HD as well as QSC PLD4.5.  They do a fine job on Danley boxes.

As Ray said, a call to Danley.  Or perhaps Ivan can chime in.

Best,
John R.
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Tom Bourke

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Re: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2016, 10:32:54 pm »

I think your reading the specks wrong.  That's per-channel.  So 1300 watts into each box, with 1 box per ch@4ohm. Sounds fine to me for a continuous output.

As for what box is better for your application I will defer to others.
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2016, 10:54:06 pm »

I operate a production company in Humboldt, CA. We setup EDM events and are about to invest in a Danley Rig. Events range from 8-24 hours nonstop with high SPL indoors and outdoors. I've already made contact with a dealer who gave me a quote. We're going to be getting:

x4 DHB218
x4 SH50T
x2 SM100M (DJ booth monitor)
x2 THmini ("     "     ")

The amplifiers that the dealer suggested were a single DNA20K4 for all 4 subs (2ohm@5000W), and two DNA10K4's to run the tops and booth monitors.

The DNA20K seems to be fine with running all 4 subs, same with the 10K running the monitors; but I'm concerned with the DNA10K and the SH50s. The SH50s operate at 1000Wcont.@4ohms but the 10K only puts out 1300W RMS.

300W doesn't seem like enough headroom for these beastly loudspeakers especially since we are going to be bumping the system for long periods of time. The dealer assured me that it will run the tops fine, but the DNA20K would be a way better fit at 2600W@4ohms correct?

Beyond that how does our system look? Eventually planning to add x4 more DBH218s when the capital is there.

Any personal input/tips are welcomed  :)

For about the same price, I would suggest 2xSH96HO over any combination of 4 smaller speakers. You won't notice the 10 loss in horizontal coverage, but you WILL notice the extra 6db of output. Danley speakers array very well, but I believe the coherence of a SINGLE speaker per side will be better than two per side. Ivan will correct me here if I'm wrong on that.

For EDM I would power the cabinets at or near RMS levels. This is especially true for subs, but still applies to tops as well. So 1300 would be plenty for the SH50's. Doubling the power only gets you 3db, but a lot greater risk for failure. You're at the point of diminishing returns. BUT, I would suggest 2x DNA20KPro's. One can run the subs, the other can run the SH96HO's and the DJ monitors. No need for 3 amps, and you save a lot of money.

My suggestion for DJ monitors would be the SM100B, which has the sub(s) built in. It's a few hundred more than the combination of SM100/THMini, but again you'll have a single speaker and improved coherence. Not to mention it's MUCH larger than the SM100, which will make them 'sound better' to the DJ's.

As for the subs, have you considered the BC415? It's twice the price of the DBH218, but has more output than two DBH218, so you're getting a little bit more bang for your buck.


« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 10:56:35 pm by Scott Carneval »
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John Rutirasiri

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Re: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2016, 11:51:31 pm »

For about the same price, I would suggest 2xSH96HO over any combination of 4 smaller speakers. You won't notice the 10 loss in horizontal coverage, but you WILL notice the extra 6db of output.

A single SH96 is going to have less output than two SH46 splayed.  I believe SH46 and its Xover was designed to be used in pairs.  I'm not sure the SH96 was designed to be stacked/used in pairs should you need more output.

It much easier for me to move, fly, and pull back two SH46's attached together.  A single pick point and they're up, plus a couple of eyebolts for the pull back.  The SH96 is a massive box.  I believe you're supposed to use four eye bolts on top if you want to fly the SH96 (plus another two for the pull back).

I have not noticed coherency issues after using the SH46 for 3 years.  I doubt people going to EDM shows will be that analytical.  They'd rather be vaping and dancing!

John R.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2016, 08:10:34 am »

I operate a production company in Humboldt, CA. We setup EDM events and are about to invest in a Danley Rig. Events range from 8-24 hours nonstop with high SPL indoors and outdoors. I've already made contact with a dealer who gave me a quote. We're going to be getting:

x4 DHB218
x4 SH50T
x2 SM100M (DJ booth monitor)
x2 THmini ("     "     ")

The amplifiers that the dealer suggested were a single DNA20K4 for all 4 subs (2ohm@5000W), and two DNA10K4's to run the tops and booth monitors.

The DNA20K seems to be fine with running all 4 subs, same with the 10K running the monitors; but I'm concerned with the DNA10K and the SH50s. The SH50s operate at 1000Wcont.@4ohms but the 10K only puts out 1300W RMS.

300W doesn't seem like enough headroom for these beastly loudspeakers especially since we are going to be bumping the system for long periods of time. The dealer assured me that it will run the tops fine, but the DNA20K would be a way better fit at 2600W@4ohms correct?

Beyond that how does our system look? Eventually planning to add x4 more DBH218s when the capital is there.

Any personal input/tips are welcomed  :)
Rather than try to answer the various questions posed by others and this post, let me try to put some ideas out there.

How is the system going to be deployed?  Is it going to be stacked up?  If so, then the 2 DBH218s are not going to be tall enough.  You would do better using more TH118s to get the tops up higher.

Yes a single DBH218 is less money than a pair of TH118s, but if the tops are not high enough, you will have issues getting the sound to the back of the room.

The SH50s are great speakers, but would not be my first choice for EDM type music.  For the money, a single SH96 would be a better choice (as compared to a pair of SH50s) per side.

That extra money could be put towards the difference in the price of the subs.

SH46s are much easier to move around a SH96 and get quite a bit louder.  However, a pair of them per side is going to be a bit more than a pair of SH50s.  But would also allow for larger gigs (once more subs are added).

As a good idea of "ratio", 4 DBH218s to a single SH96HO is a good EDM ratio for lots of pounding bass.  The height is good also.

If the budget is fixed-personally I would go with more subs and use an SM80 for tops.  You would be surprised at loud it can get with a lot of "subbage" under it.

At least for starters.  Maybe later on go to some stronger tops

I would not use the SM100B for EDM monitors.  It is a great sounding box that goes quite low.  But the SM100F would be  a better "full range" choice.  It does not go as low-but gets louder than the SM100B.  There will be plenty of deep bass coming from the subs anyway.

HOWEVER-both the SM100F and the proposed Sm100M/THmini combo will not provide the SPL needed by most mid level and up DJs.  A setup of Sm80s and TH118s is very popular and gets quite loud and makes them happy.

Yes it is more money-but could cost less due to less blown drivers.  But if the monitors are properly limited, the worst that would happen is they are not loud enough-but at least they won't blow up.

The DNA amps have a VERY GOOD limiting section in them, so when the recommended settings are used- driver failure should not be a problem.

Very soon they will have presets for all the Danley products in them.

But if you want to stick with the proposed setup-the 10K amps would be fine for the SH50s or the SH46s.

You have to consider than when running for long periods of time, you should be using LESS power to the loudspeakers-NOT more.

The power ratings are over a specified period of time, using a specified crest factor signal.  Loudspeakers continue to heat up the more you use them, so it is better not to continue to heat them up.

The one advantage to using all the same sized amp is that if one should fail you can swap them around as needed.

But THAT would be the reason to go with the 20K, NOT the additional power for the full range cabinets.

But the suggested amps for the suggested setup is a good recommendation.

I hope this gives some ideas.

I am open to more questions/suggestions.
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Ivan Beaver
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John Rutirasiri

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Re: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2016, 10:28:38 am »

Ivan is right on with getting the speakers high enough. For EDM shows, you don't necessarily need even front-to-back coverage.  You want to to cover the dance area, so it is very common to get the boxes as high as possible and pull back.  Often times, ground stack just won't do it.

Having done quite a few EDM-type gigs in various venues, I'm pretty certain the OP will be flying the speakers sooner or later.  Outdoor, it could be a truss-roof or mobile stage with wings/bars he can attach chain hoists and fly the speakers.  Indoor, it could be a high-ceiling warehouse-type places where motors can be rigged.  Some places it will be Genie supertowers.  In any case, one has to think ahead about how these speakers will be deployed.  Consideration has to be made whether it's feasible to ground stack -- be able to lift the 200+ lbs. and put them on top of subs (or multiple subs stacked) high enough. 2x SH46 and a single SH96 weigh almost the same. 

I've stacked SH46's (individually) on top of two TH118 sitting on their sides and that wasn't high enough.  Then we tried three TH118's on top of each other as the foundation and let me tell you, it was downright dangerous to try and lift the SH46's and get them that high.

The SH96/SH96HO (bi-amped SH96) are great boxes, and for installs in a club where they won't be constantly put up and torn down, that would be my first choice.  But for a portable application, I need to be able to fly the speakers FAST.  This is where (2) SH46s with the MB50 flybar is just so much easier than flying one SH96 with four eyebolts and cables.  Being able to hook a motor to a single shackle saves tremendous amount of time.  Pulling back and toeing-in a pair of SH46's attached is really easy.

So there's more to it than what sounds better or goes louder.

John R.



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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2016, 12:17:29 pm »

But for a portable application, I need to be able to fly the speakers FAST.  This is where (2) SH46s with the MB50 flybar is just so much easier than flying one SH96 with four eyebolts and cables.  Being able to hook a motor to a single shackle saves tremendous amount of time.  Pulling back and toeing-in a pair of SH46's attached is really easy.


You can keep the 46s bolted together and put them in a road case as a single unit-or on a dolly as a single unit.

Then-as you say-pick with the MB50 bracket in the middle.
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Ivan Beaver
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John Rutirasiri

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Re: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2016, 12:26:04 pm »

You can keep the 46s bolted together and put them in a road case as a single unit-or on a dolly as a single unit.

Then-as you say-pick with the MB50 bracket in the middle.
Ivan, that's exactly how I have them.  I never take the bolted pairs apart. 
Easy to transport the pair on standard size mover's dolly, except dragging through grass...

The dolly fits perfectly in between Genie Supertower outriggers.

John R.
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Re: Help Please!: Danley Sound Labs System Purchase
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2016, 12:26:04 pm »


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