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Author Topic: SRX800p 12's or 15's  (Read 12963 times)

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2016, 01:42:44 pm »

I would defer my final judgement to Debbie since she has more experience with all the contenders ;)

For my own experience, the DSR112's have a very nice low mid punch that I have found to be in the same league with the SRX715 (one of my all time favorite speakers).  Debbie did an A/B test with these a while back (since she had both for a while).

My guess is that an SRX815p would be a better option for bottom heavy content than the SRX812p.  I am thinking EDM or heavy metal.

I agree with Bob on his comments on the LF "punch" being something that generally comes from the woofer in your tops.

Having said that, I generally like the overall balance of the DSR112 over a sub than the 15's that I have used (PRX615, DXR15) in the same rig.

I much prefer the sound of the DSR112 to the K12, KW122, or PRX612m (and I assume 712m, but I haven't heard these side by side so I can't say for sure).

Hope this helps!

One of the things I love about the DSR112's is that Yamaha have managed to find a way (FIR)to really accentuate the mids - especially most common vocal frequency range - and they  'pop' without producing the harshness that I hear with a lot of 12" speakers I come across. It can be EQ'd out for the most part but it always seems to be there.
This is one of the reasons I have mainly owned 15" tops - because till now I couldn't find 12" tops (in MI budget) that performed as well as the DSR112's for my needs. When I came across these, it was bit of a game changer for me.

So in the smaller venues, I love the DSR112's. They make mixing easy. The struggle to define mid frequency instruments that always seemed to come about in almost every where we go, has been solved with these. They are wonderful speakers.
However, outside shows and at the larger venues, I like the 15 inch tops with subs. They tend to give me a warmer thicker 'bigger' sound - again it could be due to the speakers I choose to use but then again I also found this with the PRX612's I used to own compared to the SRX715's that I always used for outside larger venues inside.
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Chuck Simon

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Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2016, 02:12:35 pm »

I'm curious, Debbie,  Did you do a  blind test between the SRX 812 and 815 or were you using the DSR or PRX?  In other words, was speaker size the only variable?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 02:18:23 pm by Chuck Simon »
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Luke Geis

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Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2016, 02:38:28 pm »

For me the 12" speaker size is about the best size overall. In a simple 2 way system it is just hard to beat. It has less beaming than a 15" and still has pretty much all the output that a 15" has.

A 10" speaker, heck even 8" would likely sound better in the long run, but it comes with a compromise. You don't get the SPL and frequency extension into the lower region with the smaller speakers.

Too much of a good thing is still too much. If a larger speaker allows for more low end and more SPL, at some point you reach a point of diminishing returns. The 15" speaker, to me, is that point when used in a 2 way system. Now a 3 way box is a whole different story. The 3 way design eliminates the pitfalls of the 15" 2 way design. Given the choice between a 15" 3 way box and a 12" 2 way, I would be inclined to go with the 3 way if it fit the gig.

I would not go as far as saying a 3 way design with a 12" speaker would be a step up. It would have basically the same limitations as the 15", but there would be no low end extension and no real improvement in SPL.

For those wondering why this keeps coming up, I will try and keep it short, simple and bullet pointed.

1. 15" speakers are large enough that they start to intermodulate the higher frequencies on it's own cone surface. This causes cancellations and beaming. This is most problematic around the crossover point and makes it more difficult to nail that region. For example a 15" speaker will typically start beaming around 900hz. A 12" speaker will start beaming around 1,100hz and an 8" speaker around 1,700hz. As you can see an 8" speaker is about a spot on candidate for most 2 way crossover points in most live audio cabinets. You can actually get the crossover region going before the 8" speaker starts beaming. With a 15" speaker you will get the 900-1k in the face on axis, but off axis the polar pattern changes.

2. Smaller speakers have less mass to move and will more accurately follow the incoming electrical signal. In essence they will sound more true. Think studio monitor.

3. When used in conjunction with a sub, there is no need to worry about low end extension with the Main speakers. They only need to get to around 80hz relatively flat. pretty much ALL 2 way designs will get that low. So a 15" 2 way design has no need for its low end extension and you will still have the beaming and odd polar response.

4. In standalone situations, the 15" has the advantage of having enough low end grunt to get the point across. A 12" speaker gets relatively close to the same low end frequency, but often not with the same SPL and impact.

In the end I think it still comes down to whats best for the gig. If subs are not an option and you still need low end power, I suggest 3 way 15" designs such as the JBL SRX835P. It gives you the best of both worlds. Cost is usually the limiting factor, but if you want to be the best and do it right....... In the case where subs are not an option, you sometimes have to consider what you're providing for and what is actually viable based on the income. A small bar gig with no budget may just have to go through the night with vocal support only? There is no rule that says you can't mic a kick and put it into a 12" speaker, it just won't kick you in the gut. I don't own 15" speakers for two reasons. A: If the client truly wants bottom end, they will usually pay for it. And B: If a sub isn't affordable or practical, a 12" speaker has enough to do the job and the client is still getting what they paid for. You also have to consider the media and the crowd....... A jazz trio will not care if the paint will shake off the walls. Conversely a group of drunk, tweaked out EDM patrons will not care what the speaker is as long as they can feel the beat.

Don't get me wrong, it is not that a 15" 2 way design sounds bad, it's just inferior to others in the area's that I value most. I go for the most predictable and smoothest transitioning option I can. A 12" design meets both of those quite well. One up from that would be a 15" 3 way design if more low end and SPL is needed. A 15" 2 way design just doesn't have much more than the typical 12" design can deliver. I think for most, the fear is in trying? Just because it has more, doesn't mean it's better......
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2016, 03:18:08 pm »

One of the things I love about the DSR112's is that Yamaha have managed to find a way (FIR)to really accentuate the mids - especially most common vocal frequency range - and they  'pop' without producing the harshness that I hear with a lot of 12" speakers I come across. It can be EQ'd out for the most part but it always seems to be there.
This is one of the reasons I have mainly owned 15" tops - because till now I couldn't find 12" tops (in MI budget) that performed as well as the DSR112's for my needs.

The mid/vocal clarity comes from the larger compression driver and the more advanced processing this box includes, I believe Yamaha has managed to achieve performance from this series that was previously only possible with even larger CDs like those in the SRX series for example. And this is where I think you would have found an exception to your rule about 15" boxes sounding better in this regard, because PRX615s do not sound any clearer than PRX612s in this regard and that is because the box has the same 1" exit cd.
I also prefer 15" boxes for live sound support in most cases but 12"s seem to work better for recorded music, the extra low/mid output of the 15's just seems to muddy things.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2016, 03:42:33 pm »

The mid/vocal clarity comes from the larger compression driver and the more advanced processing this box includes, I believe Yamaha has managed to achieve performance from this series that was previously only possible with even larger CDs like those in the SRX series for example. And this is where I think you would have found an exception to your rule about 15" boxes sounding better in this regard, because PRX615s do not sound any clearer than PRX612s in this regard and that is because the box has the same 1" exit cd.
I also prefer 15" boxes for live sound support in most cases but 12"s seem to work better for recorded music, the extra low/mid output of the 15's just seems to muddy things.

I have yet to test out the DSR112's at one of my parking lot outside events using them with my double 18" and 2 18"'s. That would be interesting.
I run sound there about 4 times a year. Each show consists of a very varied live music scenario with quick changes in between so I am able to really test out my speakers. I have had bagpipes, mandolin, banjos, djembes, harmonica, sax, trumpets, trombones, gongs etc etc etc.....as well as the usual stuff so I really get a good all round idea of what these different instruments sound like. I also play pre recorded break music but I haven't noticed any muddiness there due to the 15's .....possibly because it is lower volume and I don't care much till the talent comes on stage.
I probably could have chosen the SRX812's instead of the 815's and would most folks have been able to tell the difference?... as discussed in a other thread, maybe not.
I do like having the option to not have to use subs with the 815's in smaller places - it doesn't happen often, I usually take at least one sub with me but its nice to have that. So far the size and weight has not been prohibitive so no worries there.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2016, 06:45:52 pm »

Ironically... In the next week or so I will get the chance to test a pair of SRX812p against my SRX815p's. A friend of mine has a pair and I will do my usual blind testing to see if there is much difference between the 2. I'll report back if anyone is interested....
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2016, 06:48:21 pm »

I'm curious, Debbie,  Did you do a  blind test between the SRX 812 and 815 or were you using the DSR or PRX?  In other words, was speaker size the only variable?

No - that is the thing Chuck, I've never had the same series but different size driver speaker side by side. I've had to read between the lines a bit. All my tests were done with this in mind though ... However, I just posted that I'll be doing a side by side with the SRX812p and the SRX815p soon so that will be interesting....
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2016, 06:52:49 pm »

Just to add.... as a number of comments have been regarding differentiating between live and prerecorded music, I'll use both in the test. I won't be able to run a full band through them but I can run individuals i.e. drums, guitar, bass, vocals, keys. I'll record each one and loop them so I can EQ them and spend some time playing with the results.
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Steve Garris

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Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2016, 07:22:33 pm »

Ironically... In the next week or so I will get the chance to test a pair of SRX812p against my SRX815p's. A friend of mine has a pair and I will do my usual blind testing to see if there is much difference between the 2. I'll report back if anyone is interested....

I will be very interested. Please hurry!
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Jay Marr

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Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2016, 01:34:34 pm »

Ironically... In the next week or so I will get the chance to test a pair of SRX812p against my SRX815p's. A friend of mine has a pair and I will do my usual blind testing to see if there is much difference between the 2. I'll report back if anyone is interested....

If it's possible, would be good to throw your DSR112's in the line up as well. 
Because if the 812's sound great, you know everyone is going to ask if you would chose them over your DSR's... :)

Overall I'm interested to hear your report on the 812's though....so if no DSR compare, it's all good.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: SRX800p 12's or 15's
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2016, 01:34:34 pm »


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