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Author Topic: Tannoy VXP Question  (Read 3891 times)

David Jameson

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Tannoy VXP Question
« on: March 26, 2016, 08:20:51 am »

A Theatrical Company has won the bid for updating our local high school auditorium...roughly 500 seats and anything from chorus concerts to gospel concerts to talking heads.  The company has spec'd Tannoy VXP speakers and monitors.  I have no experience with these but they don't look like a viable solution for this install. 

Anyone have any experience with these?  Will they provide 100db or so at the back of the room for full concert quality?

Thanks for your time.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Tannoy VXP Question
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2016, 09:30:55 am »

A Theatrical Company has won the bid for updating our local high school auditorium...roughly 500 seats and anything from chorus concerts to gospel concerts to talking heads.  The company has spec'd Tannoy VXP speakers and monitors.  I have no experience with these but they don't look like a viable solution for this install. 

Anyone have any experience with these?  Will they provide 100db or so at the back of the room for full concert quality?

Thanks for your time.
First we need more information about your question.

What model are you talking about?

Are you talking about 100dB A or C, fast or slow or peak?

How far is "the back" from the speakers?  Is the seating wide and not deep or deep and not wide or something else?

How many speakers-what sort of layout? 

You say "full concert quality", exactly what does that mean?
From the type of usage you describe, 100dB A or C would seem to be very loud.

Are YOU expecting rock concert levels?  What does the SCHOOL (the people paying for it) expect?
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Ivan Beaver
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John L Nobile

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Re: Tannoy VXP Question
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2016, 09:40:13 am »

A Theatrical Company has won the bid for updating our local high school auditorium...roughly 500 seats and anything from chorus concerts to gospel concerts to talking heads.  The company has spec'd Tannoy VXP speakers and monitors.  I have no experience with these but they don't look like a viable solution for this install. 

Anyone have any experience with these?  Will they provide 100db or so at the back of the room for full concert quality?

Thanks for your time.

What model and amount are they recommending? Are there any subs?
I'd want another quote from another company.
If you post a room diagram you'll probably get some good ideas here.
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David Jameson

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Re: Tannoy VXP Question
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2016, 11:24:15 am »

First we need more information about your question.

What model are you talking about?

Are you talking about 100dB A or C, fast or slow or peak?

How far is "the back" from the speakers?  Is the seating wide and not deep or deep and not wide or something else?

How many speakers-what sort of layout? 

You say "full concert quality", exactly what does that mean?
From the type of usage you describe, 100dB A or C would seem to be very loud.

Are YOU expecting rock concert levels?  What does the SCHOOL (the people paying for it) expect?

Thanks guys for your time.  I wasn't specific as the company wasn't specific and up until now...I have not been involved.  I was honestly just looking for some generic comments on the Tannoy speakers as I have never heard them.  At face value, they don't appear the right speaker for this job.  They appear to be more like a home speaker...small, no horn....not what I am used to in SR.

A short history and an apology for the long intro.  I work for the district.  On the side, I have provided sound and video for most all events in the district for 20 years now.  I have also co-designed and installed every system in all schools, stadiums, cafeterias and gyms.  Over the years, I have submitted several different plans for updating this auditorium based on the budget at the time only at the end to be told...maybe later, we don't have the money.  This project now is being included in a larger upgrade that is being handled by the Director of Facilities...who knows nothing of sound, video or lighting and just tuned it over to the architect to do from what I can tell.  Although I would have liked the opportunity to do this job, it is not me trying to start trouble or crying since I didn't get the job.  No, the job was not bid out (a whole other issue!).  I was asked by another person in the group to "look over the stuff" and see what I thought.  I made some comments which lead to more questions and now to the point of being asked "what do we need".  No one in the group has any idea of what is involved and/or what is needed.  I hated to pass judgement on a speaker that I have never heard and do not know it's capabilities.

*All that was listed is Tannoy VXP.  I have asked model, 8, 12, 15....no response yet.
*Company commented system would provide 100db at back of auditorium...no specifics.
*Auditorium is wider than deep....approximately 125 wide by 100 deep, sloped from stage up to back of room, stage approximately 40 wide and 30 deep and 36" high.
* No mention of numbers or layout of speakers.
* On electrical drawings there is one note of "power box for subwoofer".  No mention in install company doc of subs.
*Was mentioned...."Front fills and delay speakers as needed".


District Expectations: top notch venue and to have everything they need and no reason to have to contract with me.  Real expectations....I am only assuming based on what I have been contracted to provide in the past.  We have a top notch choral program that is used to a large set up sometimes with full band back up.  Community uses this for gospel bands, talent shows, etc.  On large events I generally bring 3 RCF HDL20s and ground stack with one RCF 8006 sub per side on stage.  Talking head events I have used 2 QSC K10s per side on sticks which cover it nicely.  Rock concert levels...no.  Full range playback with enough volume to handle full bands (drums, bass, guitars, keys, vocals) for the room....yes.

Hope this helps a little.  Thanks again for your time.

(and Ivan, previous updates submitted by us used Danley SM80s, SM100s, TH115s in a LRC setup with subs under the stage on either side :) )
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 11:29:29 am by David Jameson »
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Cailen Waddell

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Tannoy VXP Question
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2016, 11:40:10 am »

If this is a school system, then there should be a written spec from the architects in division 11 of the Aia spec book.  Look at it.  See if and how the system from the contractor meets the spec. The spec book should detail when and what kind of submittals are required and then the process for approving them as meeting the spec. 


EDIT:  I should say if this is an AIA job, most public buildings and construction plans are...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 11:45:23 am by Cailen Waddell »
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Tannoy VXP Question
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2016, 12:21:18 pm »

Thanks guys for your time.  I wasn't specific as the company wasn't specific and up until now...I have not been involved.  I was honestly just looking for some generic comments on the Tannoy speakers as I have never heard them.  At face value, they don't appear the right speaker for this job.  They appear to be more like a home speaker...small, no horn....not what I am used to in SR.

They don't have a 'conventional' horn, but they are a coaxial speaker and the HF is a compression driver. They will perform as well or better than a conventional 15/1 or 12/1 speaker. It's not just a dome tweeter.

Quote
*All that was listed is Tannoy VXP.  I have asked model, 8, 12, 15....no response yet.
*Company commented system would provide 100db at back of auditorium...no specifics.
*Auditorium is wider than deep....approximately 125 wide by 100 deep, sloped from stage up to back of room, stage approximately 40 wide and 30 deep and 36" high.
* No mention of numbers or layout of speakers.
* On electrical drawings there is one note of "power box for subwoofer".  No mention in install company doc of subs.
*Was mentioned...."Front fills and delay speakers as needed".

Given that there was no formal bid process, have they actually won the 'bid' or are they just the leading candidate for the job right now? Has a contract been signed? I would request a demo of the system they're specifying. If they're a Tannoy dealer this shouldn't be a problem. I have a Danley system that we routinely take out on demos.
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MikeHarris

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Re: Tannoy VXP Question
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2016, 12:31:45 pm »

to me Tannoy has struggled to remain relevant. I like the new approach that Martin is taking with their CDD series which has a differential dispersion waveguide molded into the cone of their coaxial drivers. A drawing of the space will be helpful. This can probably be well solved with a 2.1 system...avoiding delays and fold that budget into better mains
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Tannoy VXP Question
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2016, 02:23:12 pm »


(and Ivan, previous updates submitted by us used Danley SM80s, SM100s, TH115s in a LRC setup with subs under the stage on either side :) )
Just for "reference", my comments had nothing to do with speaker A vs speaker B.

And had everything to do with providing adequate information about a particular usage.

People come on the forums all the time and ask if a particular speaker will do the job.  Yet they provide no useful information about the actual job.

The WHOLE intent of my post (and most of my posts) is to get people to actually THINK about what they are asking and what sort of response they are looking for.

Many people just want a simple answer to a complex question.  And most times that results in a WRONG answer.

In your case-it sounds as if they will get "something", and whether or not it does the job, will have to be determined after it is installed.

It is truly sad, but MANY school systems simply make noise.  It is not until later on some independent person or group hires a real company to come in and do it right.

And ever further still, as long as it "makes noise", many people think it is working properly.  No wonder the bar is so low in terms of "sound acceptance" these days.

And when you give them a truly great system, the sound simply "disappears" and they don't even think of it as a great system.  Because their attention was not focused on it.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Tannoy VXP Question
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2016, 08:27:10 pm »

If this is a school system, then there should be a written spec from the architects in division 11 of the Aia spec book.  Look at it.  See if and how the system from the contractor meets the spec. The spec book should detail when and what kind of submittals are required and then the process for approving them as meeting the spec. 


EDIT:  I should say if this is an AIA job, most public buildings and construction plans are...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just watned to jump back in now that I am at a real computer.  I think it would be wise to determine where in the process the renovation is, and then cross reference that with the purchasing/bid rules that govern the school system.  Maybe a spec hasn't been written.  Maybe thats what is going on right now.  If it is, the OP may have some valuable experience that he can offer the design team.  I find most consultants/designers are more than happy to let someone else do the work for them, especially if it makes for happy clients.  When a client or their representative knows what they want its just makes for a more pleasant process for everyone.  Maybe this is an opportunity to get what you think the venue needs into the school...

I have LOTS of experience from the client/consultant side, with a local school system here, as well as representing the owner in the Theater/AV system construction process for 2 venues and many more systems at my current employer, and several systems and venues at previous employers.  I would be happy to help pass on any knowledge if that might assist in the process... 
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eric lenasbunt

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Re: Tannoy VXP Question
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2016, 09:01:05 am »

I am of the opinion that school districts should be getting multiple bids if at all possible. I am the only real installer in my immediate city, but knowing that the schools get bids from companies an hour or two away keeps my bids competitive and relevant as I don't assume I get every job.

Also, if they are not using a true consultant to spec the design I think it is even more important to get multiple bids and pitches for what will work.

To your specific question:
A lawnmower can probably hit 100db in the back of the room, that doesn't mean it will sound good.

Tannoy VP is fine gear. Is it right for the room? We'd need a TON more detail to determine that.

Lastly, a bid that doesn't even give you specific models for your main speakers and components is not a bid at all, that's a ripping waiting to happen.
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Re: Tannoy VXP Question
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2016, 09:01:05 am »


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