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Author Topic: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs  (Read 4113 times)

Charlton Combs

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Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« on: March 24, 2016, 01:28:41 am »

Hey Guys!

I am a long time lurker, I recently became a member, and I am finally contributing.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/Smileys/default/cool.gif


I have researched this topic, checked out best audio and PL Systems amongst others, and cannot seem to find a concise answer to my question.

I may have missed it in my research, and I apologize if so.

I am wanting to integrate a 2 way radio into a talkback system we use with our IEMs. This system would allow the radio transmission to feed audio into the IEMs, while also allowing our talk mics to be transmitted back into the radios.

The pin out part of this is easy, I am getting hung up on how audio fed from my console would key the radio.

Thanks!

Charlton
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 01:44:17 am »

Hey Guys!

I am a long time lurker, I recently became a member, and I am finally contributing.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/Smileys/default/cool.gif


I have researched this topic, checked out best audio and PL Systems amongst others, and cannot seem to find a concise answer to my question.

I may have missed it in my research, and I apologize if so.

I am wanting to integrate a 2 way radio into a talkback system we use with our IEMs. This system would allow the radio transmission to feed audio into the IEMs, while also allowing our talk mics to be transmitted back into the radios.

The pin out part of this is easy, I am getting hung up on how audio fed from my console would key the radio.

Thanks!

Charlton

Two ways to do it. 

1) With a Simplex radio a VoX or Voice Operated Relay would key the radio when audio is present.  Think of it as a gate with a form C closure

2) With a Duplex base station (coolest way) You would put a small repeater on site that has a duplexer.  A filter allowing the transmitter and receiver to share an antenna and operate concurrently.  The TX and RX frequencies are usually 5Mhz apart.  Most commercial radios have a 4 wire 600ohm balanced telephone line style input that would be easy to interface to the intercom system

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Keith Broughton

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 08:01:14 am »

Hey Guys!

I am a long time lurker, I recently became a member, and I am finally contributing.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/Smileys/default/cool.gif


I have researched this topic, checked out best audio and PL Systems amongst others, and cannot seem to find a concise answer to my question.

I may have missed it in my research, and I apologize if so.

I am wanting to integrate a 2 way radio into a talkback system we use with our IEMs. This system would allow the radio transmission to feed audio into the IEMs, while also allowing our talk mics to be transmitted back into the radios.

The pin out part of this is easy, I am getting hung up on how audio fed from my console would key the radio.

Charlton
Just to clarify your application...
 You want to be able to go to your "talk" mic,( which I assume is the mic to talk to the monitors), and have it come up in the radios.
Are the talk mics  wired and in a fixed location?
Where is the walkie talkie located?
Are you switching the talk mics on and off? If so, how?
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Henry Cohen

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2016, 09:57:15 am »

1) With a Simplex radio a VoX or Voice Operated Relay would key the radio when audio is present.  Think of it as a gate with a form C closure

Check the radio's feature set: It may have VOX built in that simply needs to be enabled [and adjusted] through the programming software.
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Henry Cohen

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Charlton Combs

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 03:34:41 pm »

Check the radio's feature set: It may have VOX built in that simply needs to be enabled [and adjusted] through the programming software.

We have a pretty extensive talk system on our tour.

Basically, I would take all talk mics (they are all switched with either Radial DM-1s, Radial Relay XOs, or Just Switched Mics...depending on the users needs) to an aux send, and feed this aux to the radio, so that all talk mics are transmitted to our 2 way radio system.

I would also bring in radio chatter to my console, and this would feed to the ears of the techs.

This basically allows our tour manager and other personnel to interact with us once we all switch from radios (load in) to ears (show)
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 08:55:16 pm »

We have a pretty extensive talk system on our tour.

Basically, I would take all talk mics (they are all switched with either Radial DM-1s, Radial Relay XOs, or Just Switched Mics...depending on the users needs) to an aux send, and feed this aux to the radio, so that all talk mics are transmitted to our 2 way radio system.

I would also bring in radio chatter to my console, and this would feed to the ears of the techs.

This basically allows our tour manager and other personnel to interact with us once we all switch from radios (load in) to ears (show)

Main problem is that your radios are simplex...when a radio is transmitting no other radios can transmit.  VOX or voice operated Transmit won't work since there is a timeout on long transmissions and if anyone leaves the TB mic on NO-ONE can talk on that channel.

The proper way to do it, as Scott pointed out, is to add a repeater and change that channel on your radios to work with it.  (this channel will not work now without the repeater.) 

Then there are separate frequencies (channels) for the talk from the radio and the listen to the radio.  Your TB mixer will feed the repeater audio and be constantly transmitted or on/off with VOX. 

This will not interfere with radios talking at all.  They can talk at the same time as a TB mic is being used and everyone will hear a mix of the TB system and the Radio which is transmitting.
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Henry Cohen

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2016, 10:49:04 am »

Your TB mixer will feed the repeater audio and be constantly transmitted or on/off with VOX.

Just note that it is a violation of FCC rules to have a constant broadcast transmitter operating on Part 90 (business band) or Part 95 (personal radio service) frequencies.

Otherwise, Pete's comments are on target. What works for you depends on the desired work flow of the users.
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Henry Cohen

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Pete Erskine

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2016, 11:38:56 am »

Just note that it is a violation of FCC rules to have a constant broadcast transmitter operating on Part 90 (business band) or Part 95 (personal radio service) frequencies.

Otherwise, Pete's comments are on target. What works for you depends on the desired work flow of the users.

If the repeater has a vox mode that would avoid the constant TX to hear the Talk Back mics, assuming they ever turn off.
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Charlton Combs

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2016, 05:08:08 pm »

If the repeater has a vox mode that would avoid the constant TX to hear the Talk Back mics, assuming they ever turn off.

Thank you guys so much for all of the info! In our case, everyone has momentary talk switches except for me (switched mic) so I am not too worried about leaving a TB on. Only a few of our personnel on tour do not have a talk back during the show, that is our Tour Manager and Head of Security. All personnel has an in ear mix though, so basically I will end up using the radios as their 'talk mics'.

I am going to try to use VOX, since I think this will actually be closer to what I am needing in this particular scenario, and maybe move on to the repeater if not.

I will build my adaptor cables and program a radio as soon as I get a chance and I will let you guys know how it works!

Thanks again!!
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2016, 07:06:17 pm »

Thank you guys so much for all of the info! In our case, everyone has momentary talk switches except for me (switched mic) so I am not too worried about leaving a TB on. Only a few of our personnel on tour do not have a talk back during the show, that is our Tour Manager and Head of Security. All personnel has an in ear mix though, so basically I will end up using the radios as their 'talk mics'.

I am going to try to use VOX, since I think this will actually be closer to what I am needing in this particular scenario, and maybe move on to the repeater if not.

I will build my adapter cables and program a radio as soon as I get a chance and I will let you guys know how it works!

Thanks again!!

On Katy Perry they used a simpler solution.  There was a cue channel on TB mix for in ears that all crew and show managers had.  A radio listen only was mixed into the ear mix.  No transmitting back from the TB mix via radios because they were listening in IEM.  They just talked only on that radio channel into the TB mix and didn't bother to listen to the radio at all.
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Charlton Combs

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2016, 07:49:12 pm »

On Katy Perry they used a simpler solution.  There was a cue channel on TB mix for in ears that all crew and show managers had.  A radio listen only was mixed into the ear mix.  No transmitting back from the TB mix via radios because they were listening in IEM.  They just talked only on that radio channel into the TB mix and didn't bother to listen to the radio at all.

This was actually my original plan, but every now and then my Tour Manager will get out of range for his IEMs to work (even with my helical for stage/omni backstage for green rooms approach) so I do need our talks to go back to the radio. This whole system is mainly to keep him in the loop of everything.

Thank you guys so much for contributing to this!
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Tim Padrick

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2016, 03:20:54 am »

Remember that the helical is pretty narrow: Put your eye 12" behind the backplane and look through the barrel - if you can see it, you will broadcast to it.
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Jens Palm Bacher

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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2016, 01:36:53 pm »

This was actually my original plan, but every now and then my Tour Manager will get out of range for his IEMs to work (even with my helical for stage/omni backstage for green rooms approach) so I do need our talks to go back to the radio. This whole system is mainly to keep him in the loop of everything.

Thank you guys so much for contributing to this!
Remember that with simplex radios nobody will be able to answer back on while somebody else is talking.
If something goes apeshit and everybody starts talking your TM cannot aknowledge a message.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 01:41:53 pm by Jens Palm Bacher »
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Re: Interfacing 2 Way Radios with IEMs
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2016, 01:36:53 pm »


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