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Author Topic: need help connecting QL5 to DVS  (Read 9806 times)

Kirby Yarbrough

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need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« on: March 20, 2016, 09:00:35 pm »

Trying to get a Windows 10 laptop running DVS 3.7.4.2 to connect with a QL5, firmware 3.11.

I use a static IP address (100.100.1.130) on the QL5 and have a static IP address of 100.100.1.120 for the Ethernet adaptor on the laptop.  The network connection between the laptop and QL5 seems to work fine, at least as evidenced by correct connection and operation of the QL Editor.  I'm using a plain cat5 (6') cable between the laptop and the QL5.  The same IP address scheme works with my WAP set to 100.100.1.1 and QL Stagemix on an iPad set to 100.100.1.100, with the WAP plugged into the QL5.  Subnet mask on all devices is 255.255.255.0.

I've followed the steps described in the QL Series Live Recording Guide with Nuendo Live (http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=ae.yamaha.com&asset_id=65124).  DVS does pick up the laptop's IP address (as does Dante Controller for its primary interface when I run that, but the laptop never appears on the QL5's Device Mount page within Dante Setup.  I can set it up using the laptop's Windows name in the DVS tab within the the Dante Offline, and that device appears in the QL5 Nuendo Live Setup DVS Device List and I can set the device IP address to 100.100.1.120, but Dante Controller still doesn't show anything but the laptop.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 09:13:09 pm by Kirby Yarbrough »
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Mac Kerr

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2016, 10:57:09 pm »

Trying to get a Windows 10 laptop running DVS 3.7.4.2 to connect with a QL5, firmware 3.11.

I use a static IP address (100.100.1.130) on the QL5 and have a static IP address of 100.100.1.120 for the Ethernet adaptor on the laptop.  The network connection between the laptop and QL5 seems to work fine, at least as evidenced by correct connection and operation of the QL Editor.  I'm using a plain cat5 (6') cable between the laptop and the QL5.  The same IP address scheme works with my WAP set to 100.100.1.1 and QL Stagemix on an iPad set to 100.100.1.100, with the WAP plugged into the QL5.  Subnet mask on all devices is 255.255.255.0.

I've followed the steps described in the QL Series Live Recording Guide with Nuendo Live (http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=ae.yamaha.com&asset_id=65124).  DVS does pick up the laptop's IP address (as does Dante Controller for its primary interface when I run that, but the laptop never appears on the QL5's Device Mount page within Dante Setup.  I can set it up using the laptop's Windows name in the DVS tab within the the Dante Offline, and that device appears in the QL5 Nuendo Live Setup DVS Device List and I can set the device IP address to 100.100.1.120, but Dante Controller still doesn't show anything but the laptop.

What is the Dante IP address of the QL? What is the control port IP address? They are not the same. If left to their own devices the primary Dante network will all be in the 169.254.x.x range, and the secondary network will be in the 172.31.x.x range. I have had the most stable network when letting Dante assign the IP addresses. Unless you are exposing your network to the outside world I see no reason to not let Dante assign the addresses. You will have to set your laptop so that DVS is on a port with a 169.254.x.x address since DVS is only on the primary network.

Mac
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Kirby Yarbrough

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 10:34:40 am »

What is the Dante IP address of the QL? What is the control port IP address? They are not the same. If left to their own devices the primary Dante network will all be in the 169.254.x.x range, and the secondary network will be in the 172.31.x.x range. I have had the most stable network when letting Dante assign the IP addresses. Unless you are exposing your network to the outside world I see no reason to not let Dante assign the addresses. You will have to set your laptop so that DVS is on a port with a 169.254.x.x address since DVS is only on the primary network.

Mac

Thanks Mac.  I am still missing something.  I've reverted to the default IP address scheme:
Laptop network (ethernet) IP address is now 169.254.1.120, (255.255.255.0)
DVS IP address is the same (169.254.1.120), which is also shown in Dante Controller (and Controller correctly reflects DvsWin 3.7.4.2)
QL5 network IP address is now 169.254.1.130 (and laptop connects to QL5 correctly using QL Editor)
QL5 Recorder -> Nuendo Live IP address is now 169.254.1.120 (same as the laptop)

DVS does not appear in the QL5 Dante setup Online Device List.  In the Dante Setup page, the left side System status LED is solid green, but the right side Sync LED is blinking twice.

How can I restore or reset DVS and the QL5 to all of Dante's default IP addresses?  My manual attempt to do that is not working.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 12:18:01 pm »

DVS does not appear in the QL5 Dante setup Online Device List.  In the Dante Setup page, the left side System status LED is solid green, but the right side Sync LED is blinking twice.

How can I restore or reset DVS and the QL5 to all of Dante's default IP addresses?  My manual attempt to do that is not working.

I assume you mean DVS is not showing up as a mounted device on the QL. You may have to mount it manually. Go to the mount device tab, look at the recognized devices tab, DVS should be a recognized device, add it to a device slot on the console (where a Rio would go) and mount it. It should come up.

Mac
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Rob Spence

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 04:23:16 pm »

I assume you mean DVS is not showing up as a mounted device on the QL. You may have to mount it manually. Go to the mount device tab, look at the recognized devices tab, DVS should be a recognized device, add it to a device slot on the console (where a Rio would go) and mount it. It should come up.

Mac

Looking at the back of the desk, there are 3 network connectors. One is the console and is how you are operating it with the editor. I don't believe there is Dante on that connector (Mac, correct me if I am wrong).

The other two connectors are the Dante network.

I suggest if you want to both control the console and use DVS, you need a simple gigabit switch (without the green power saving). Connect the laptop to it and the primary Dante port and the console port.



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Kirby Yarbrough

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 08:42:19 pm »

simple gigabit switch

Big thanks to Mac and Rob!  While not a gigabit switch, an old 10/100 Netgear FS105 pressed into service did the trick.  Plugged the WAP into the switch and I even have QL Stagemix happy along with Dante.  Went back to my original IP address scheme too.
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Riley Casey

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016, 09:27:31 pm »

Yamaha and Audinate both caution against running any network traffic that might see a wifi device thru a switch that is handling DAnte traffic.  They also make the point that a gigabit switch is required for anything more than a dozen or so channels of audio.  You may be cruisin' for a bruisin' with the set up you've described..


Big thanks to Mac and Rob!  While not a gigabit switch, an old 10/100 Netgear FS105 pressed into service did the trick.  Plugged the WAP into the switch and I even have QL Stagemix happy along with Dante.  Went back to my original IP address scheme too.

Rob Spence

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 10:48:23 pm »

Yamaha and Audinate both caution against running any network traffic that might see a wifi device thru a switch that is handling DAnte traffic.  They also make the point that a gigabit switch is required for anything more than a dozen or so channels of audio.  You may be cruisin' for a bruisin' with the set up you've described..

I agree that you should be using a gig switch though at least the one you have has proved the concept for you.

While a public access wifi is a bad idea on a Dante network, the minimal traffic due to a single user wifi isn't an issue for a small network.

If the Dante network is larger, then I would also use a separate net for audio control functions.



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Lee Buckalew

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2016, 06:37:48 am »

I agree that you should be using a gig switch though at least the one you have has proved the concept for you.

While a public access wifi is a bad idea on a Dante network, the minimal traffic due to a single user wifi isn't an issue for a small network.

If the Dante network is larger, then I would also use a separate net for audio control functions.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I believe that Audinate recomends that multicast traffic to be turned off for the port of the managed switch handling a WiFi connection in order to have stability for Dante.  Choosing to not follow the recommendation does not guarantee a problem but the possibility for a problem would certainly be greater.

Lee
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Kirby Yarbrough

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2016, 07:13:43 am »

should be using a gig switch though at least the one you have has proved the concept for you

Thanks Rob and Casey.  The old Netgear switch was just a stand-in.  Will something like the Netgear GS605 work well?
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2016, 08:55:34 am »

Thanks Rob and Casey.  The old Netgear switch was just a stand-in.  Will something like the Netgear GS605 work well?

Kirby,
Not all switches are made equal, in general there are dumb switches, like the GS605 which has no configuration at all, Layer 2 switches and Layer 3 switches.  If you really want to merge wireless control and dante on the same network, you need a switch that can be set up properly to accommodate that. Yamaha has step by step setup instructions for the cisco SG-300 series switches which have Layer 3 configurations.    The lowest entry point being the SG-300-10.   Unless you are able to translate the Yamaha SG-300 set up instructions over to another brand...just do yourself a favor and get the switch they recommend.

Here is a link to the yamaha switch setup instructions for wireless.  You will want to follow the settings all the way through to "multicast settings" on the left

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/training_support/selftraining/dante_guide/chapter2/01_network_switch/

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Josh Millward

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2016, 12:29:02 pm »

Kirby,
Not all switches are made equal, in general there are dumb switches, like the GS605 which has no configuration at all, Layer 2 switches and Layer 3 switches.  If you really want to merge wireless control and dante on the same network, you need a switch that can be set up properly to accommodate that. Yamaha has step by step setup instructions for the cisco SG-300 series switches which have Layer 3 configurations.    The lowest entry point being the SG-300-10.   Unless you are able to translate the Yamaha SG-300 set up instructions over to another brand...just do yourself a favor and get the switch they recommend.

Here is a link to the yamaha switch setup instructions for wireless.  You will want to follow the settings all the way through to "multicast settings" on the left

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/training_support/selftraining/dante_guide/chapter2/01_network_switch/

Yes. This.

I'm quoting David because he is absolutely on point here.

I have an SG300-10 in my office for my Dante network. I have all the Dante ports on the Danley DNA Dante connected amplifiers, DSP, and my Midas M32 with Dante card connected to the SG300-10 (configured per Yamaha's recommendations). Then I have the control ports of all these devices connected to a dumb Netgear GS108. I linked the two network switches together. I allowed everything on the network to use AutoIP and I can control and manage everything from a single port on my computer. I also hung an Apple Airport Express from the GS108 to allow wireless connectivity to control the amplifiers and mixing console.

This seems to be a very robust setup and has been very solid since I set it up.
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2016, 01:14:43 pm »


Yes. This.

I'm quoting David because he is absolutely on point here.

I have an SG300-10 in my office for my Dante network. I have all the Dante ports on the Danley DNA Dante connected amplifiers, DSP, and my Midas M32 with Dante card connected to the SG300-10 (configured per Yamaha's recommendations). Then I have the control ports of all these devices connected to a dumb Netgear GS108. I linked the two network switches together. I allowed everything on the network to use AutoIP and I can control and manage everything from a single port on my computer. I also hung an Apple Airport Express from the GS108 to allow wireless connectivity to control the amplifiers and mixing console.

This seems to be a very robust setup and has been very solid since I set it up.

Yes - this. 

This is essentially our setup in one of our small theaters with a CL1, 2 Stage boxes, etc.  2switches.   Works great.


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Rob Spence

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2016, 01:35:17 pm »

I have been running a simple setup with Dante and wifi together for years. Well before Yamaha came out with Dante native consoles.

I understand why manufacturers make recommendations as they do because they have tested the specific configuration. It does not mean that other configurations don't work.

If it is a simple setup, console, a Dante port, a stage box and a laptop, traffic levels are small compared to capacity.

I use a Netgear WNDR 3700 (actually several). It lets me turn off the 2.4gHz radio. I don't need to hide the network. I never connect the audio net to the Internet in the field. I can record 32 tracks while operating 2 iPads for console mixing and have never had anything close to a problem for the past 4 years.

For a simple setup, no need to overthink it.

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frank kayser

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2016, 08:44:14 pm »

I have been running a simple setup with Dante and wifi together for years. Well before Yamaha came out with Dante native consoles.

I understand why manufacturers make recommendations as they do because they have tested the specific configuration. It does not mean that other configurations don't work.

If it is a simple setup, console, a Dante port, a stage box and a laptop, traffic levels are small compared to capacity.

I use a Netgear WNDR 3700 (actually several). It lets me turn off the 2.4gHz radio. I don't need to hide the network. I never connect the audio net to the Internet in the field. I can record 32 tracks while operating 2 iPads for console mixing and have never had anything close to a problem for the past 4 years.

For a simple setup, no need to overthink it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
If Yamaha and Dante don't want WiFi traffic on the network, one can use a managed switch to create a couple vLans and I know Kirby has an access point that will allow vlan identification and tagging.  While on the same wire, the two data streams (audio and control) will never "see" each other.
frank
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2016, 09:41:35 pm »

If Yamaha and Dante don't want WiFi traffic on the network, one can use a managed switch to create a couple vLans and I know Kirby has an access point that will allow vlan identification and tagging.  While on the same wire, the two data streams (audio and control) will never "see" each other.
frank

I think its off base to say "Yamaha and Dante don't want WiFi traffic on the network".   It just requires a little extra setup to have an access point on your network.   From the link I provided earlier, here is Yamaha's recommendation for how to handle Dante with a wireless access point on the network...   

Quote
if Wi-Fi access is used within the Dante network, we recommend that you register the multicast address used for detecting devices (multicast isnít only used for audio transmission). When the network is accessed over Wi-Fi, itís possible that IGMP messages will not be properly transferred via some types of access point. In that case, devices will not be detected through the access point because IGMP snooping will not be working properly. To prevent this from happening, you should register the corresponding multicast address beforehand in order to detect devices reliably. Apply the setting only to the switches that access points will be connected to by following the procedure below.

There are more details and full instructions in the link.   I will be the first to admit....I don't know exactly what everything in that document means.   But at the level where I work...i know enough to do what I am told when it comes to this type of thing.
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Re: need help connecting QL5 to DVS
¬ę Reply #15 on: March 22, 2016, 09:41:35 pm ¬Ľ


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