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Author Topic: Open Ground  (Read 8559 times)

Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Open Ground
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2016, 12:38:30 pm »

I most new kitchens there are dual recepticals where each of the 2 outlets are split and fed with separate (linked)breakers.

To answer your question, no there are not.  I personally have not seen receptacles installed like that-though it could be done.  I usually just make a quad receptacle with a 2 gang box.

Given the changes to the NEC in 2014 with regards to requiring AFCI protection in kitchens-which precludes using a shared neutral coupled with the fact that I am unaware of any 2 pole linked AFCI breakers, I doubt that practice will continue,
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Steve Swaffer

Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Open Ground
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2016, 12:54:23 pm »

Now that I have inherited my parents post war house, I'm seeing how the wiring was done.
It's all very well installed and properly terminated but most of it is 2 wire.
I think it's time to go back and rewire!

Is there a GFCI that is "2 pole" for split recepticals in the kitchen?

If these receptacles are on two circuits with a shared neutral, you won't be able to use a standard receptacle GFCI to protect downstream receptacles. That's because you can't share the downstream neutral between two 120V GFCIs.

There are a couple of workarounds:
  • Replace EVERY receptacle with a single-circuit GFCI. At each drop, use one or the other pole (plus the neutral) to feed the upstream terminals of each GFCI. Connect nothing to the downstream terminals of the GFCI. (This is the cheapest, easiest solution.)
  • Install a double-pole GFCI breaker (not two single-pole GFCIs) to protect both poles and the neutral. If your home has a sufficiently old service panel (fuses or old breakers) you may need to either upgrade the panel so a double-pole GFCI is supported, or install a small subpanel to protect the kitchen circuit. Note that double-pole GFCI breakers require connection of both poles and the neutral; therefore a ground fault on either pole or the neutral will cause both poles to trip. (These breakers can be hideously expensive.)
  • Rewire from the first receptacle in the line to the rest of them with an additional neutral so you can use two GFCIs -- one on each pole. (This is probably the least preferable.)

EDIT: Make sure there are NO "bootleg grounds." That's where the grounding terminal of a receptacle or other device is tied to the neutral. The neutral, downstream of the circuit breaker panel, should NOT be connected to any grounding conductor or appliance chassis; that will cause unwanted tripping of the GFCI (besides being unsafe and a violation of electrical code).
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 01:05:12 pm by Jonathan Johnson »
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Open Ground
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2016, 12:59:04 pm »

If these receptacles are on two circuits with a shared neutral, you won't be able to use a standard receptacle GFCI to protect downstream receptacles. That's because you can't share the downstream neutral between two 120V GFCIs.

There are a couple of workarounds:

  • Install a double-pole GFCI breaker (not two single-pole GFCIs) to protect both poles and the neutral.
I like this solution.
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Re: Open Ground
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2016, 12:59:04 pm »


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