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Author Topic: Tips for moving to Arena sound  (Read 20406 times)

Nathan Riddle

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Tips for moving to Arena sound
« on: March 01, 2016, 12:07:53 PM »

So I have an event in April that is a basketball arena. We have never done sound in an arena and I'm looking for pointers or tips.

Our typical gigs are for 500ish people indoors in smaller venues/halls which have their own issues. In moving up to an arena that sits 3k with an expected turnout of 1.2k what should I expect and what should I start learning now in order to accomplish this event. Delay towers or not? utilize house system (some meyer mini-line-array) or not? etc. etc.

I think I understand the basics, point the speakers so spay angles cover the crowd not walls. Keep things simple try not to go crazy with any single aspect etc.

I am looking for tips on setup as well as i'll be pretty stretched thin as I'm both the lighting designer and sound engineer and electrician and rigger. (yeah I know, too many hats, but I've learned extensively in all of the said topics because I could and it was necessary) I have my business partner who mixes & can setup the stage and I'm trying to find someone to run lights, but as far as setup is concerned I'll be pretty stretched between all things.

Primary goal of this thread is tips on how to achieve good sound in an arena.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 09:48:23 AM by Nathan Riddle »
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Josh Millward

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Re: Tips for moving to Arena sound
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2016, 12:23:24 PM »

You already said it... Point the loudspeakers at the people.

Where are the people going to be? On the floor or in the seats? Hopefully all the people are concentrated in one area. That way you can point your loudspeakers at that area.

Where is the power and what power is available? Do you have a suitable distro to interface with that power?
You definitely need to have some people who can just handle the audio setup and lighting setup so you can concentrate on the other things.
What are you flying? How are you flying it? Do you know the load required for each point? Is that load suitable for what is available in the venue? Is the venue not going to require the use of their riggers?
Do you have enough loudspeaker cable?
What about snake length and XLR cable?
Where are you putting FoH? Have you checked with whomever is producing this event?
Will you need cable ramps? Do you have any cable ramps? Do you know how many you will need?

Just a couple thoughts for you... but remember, the key thing is to point the loudspeakers at the people. There is no reason to use a line array if you already own loudspeakers that can be flown and can cover the required area.
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Josh Millward
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Steve Alves

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Re: Tips for moving to Arena sound
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 12:34:54 PM »

I would guess that being this is a memorial service after a funeral, speech is going to be very important. At least you are not dealing with a rock concert in there. I would try and have a listen to the house system and fill in as needed.
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Steven Alves
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Tips for moving to Arena sound
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2016, 12:59:03 PM »

You already said it... Point the loudspeakers at the people.

Where are the people going to be? On the floor or in the seats? Hopefully all the people are concentrated in one area. That way you can point your loudspeakers at that area.

Where is the power and what power is available? Do you have a suitable distro to interface with that power?
You definitely need to have some people who can just handle the audio setup and lighting setup so you can concentrate on the other things.
What are you flying? How are you flying it? Do you know the load required for each point? Is that load suitable for what is available in the venue? Is the venue not going to require the use of their riggers?
Do you have enough loudspeaker cable?
What about snake length and XLR cable?
Where are you putting FoH? Have you checked with whomever is producing this event?
Will you need cable ramps? Do you have any cable ramps? Do you know how many you will need?

Just a couple thoughts for you... but remember, the key thing is to point the loudspeakers at the people. There is no reason to use a line array if you already own loudspeakers that can be flown and can cover the required area.

Thanks, for the response. I've tried to think through all of those questions. Here are my answers as of now.

The center will be carpeted with approximately 600-800 (can't remember count) seats. So there will be some spill onto the sides/back seats.

3x 20A circuits located around the arena on the sides (for the score keepers) There is 3p N/G 120v camlock (not sure what the feeder panel rating is, but I'm assuming it is enough) for our DIY distro. Sadly, it is located a fair distance away inside a maintenance room so we'll be running feeder cable closer to the stage from there.

Can't fly anything. I didn't even try to obtain permission for that. I plan on sticking the speakers on truss sticks L/R of stage while center clustering the subs. I'm currently working on a plan angle the speakers down and in slightly for the up close crowd which will be the main recipients of the sound.

Don't need much speaker cable as mains are powered & subs will be within 45' of amps.

150' for snake. I figure stick that on stage and go as far as possible and put the booth there. Should be roughly 3/4 at the back of the floor. The producer basically has left the details to us. and the owner/manager of the venue doesn't want his basketball floor hurt because it's his pride and joy. so catering to the manager is slightly necessary.

Haze was a big issue that he was concerned about damaging his floor even though it will be covered.

I'm thinking about a raised booth; advisable? yes?

Lots of Gaff tape. We don't have cable ramps. I doubt we will need cable ramps we'll use rugs in some of the high traffic areas.

I was entertaining the thought of turning off their system except for the speakers for the sides which could be used to supplement where our system won't be pointing (sides).

Obviously this is a big step for us and we might not necessarily have the perfect gear but we have adequate gear. My goal is to not try and do something silly or stupid in an arena. I mean I'm just trying to cover my bases by thinking about the pitfalls before they happen. I'm sure we could easily show up and do our typical setup and run things just fine. But I'm trying to alleviate any of those 'what-if's'

I would guess that being this is a memorial service after a funeral, speech is going to be very important. At least you are not dealing with a rock concert in there. I would try and have a listen to the house system and fill in as needed.

The event will be primarily consisted of Hillsong Young & Free style music Christian upbeat; good bass; electronic; worship style music. So it needs to be fairly loud. 100dbA average center room would probably be our goal.

I was really confused as to where you were getting that this event was a memorial service as I couldn't find anywhere that I said that. (probably should have specified in my original post), but I see the caption of the image...that image was a random image off of Google of the venue to help.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 01:05:59 PM by Nathan Riddle »
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Steve Alves

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Re: Tips for moving to Arena sound
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2016, 01:21:57 PM »

Yeah I saw it off the image caption.
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Steven Alves
South Florida Sound, Fort Lauderdale, FL
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John Sulek

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Re: Tips for moving to Arena sound
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2016, 03:00:33 PM »


3x 20A circuits located around the arena on the sides (for the score keepers) There is 3p N/G 120v camlock (not sure what the feeder panel rating is, but I'm assuming it is enough) for our DIY distro. Sadly, it is located a fair distance away inside a maintenance room so we'll be running feeder cable closer to the stage from there.

Can't fly anything. I didn't even try to obtain permission for that. I plan on sticking the speakers on truss sticks L/R of stage while center clustering the subs. I'm currently working on a plan angle the speakers down and in slightly for the up close crowd which will be the main recipients of the sound.

Don't need much speaker cable as mains are powered & subs will be within 45' of amps.

I'm thinking about a raised booth; advisable? yes?

Lots of Gaff tape. We don't have cable ramps. I doubt we will need cable ramps we'll use rugs in some of the high traffic areas

a few thoughts on "what ifs"...

1. Is your DIY distro got an approval sticker on it or would it pass an electrical inspection? Larger venues are usually more on top of this as it impacts their insurance.
You'll want to get the rating from the panel to make sure that the feeder cable is correctly sized.
2. Might want to get some cable ramps. If the manager is very picky about the floor, imagine his reaction as you cover it with strips of gaff. Even though proper gaff tape won't leave a residue and shouldn't affect the finish an option would be good, especially for high traffic zones. (again an insurance/liability issue as well)
3. Make sure you have enough signal/AC cable for your powered mains to do a tidy cable pick upstage. Nothing looks worse than cables spilling down in sight lines.
4. I would advise against a raised booth for audio. You want to hear as close as possible what the folks on the floor around you are hearing. You aren't aiming your speakers for people sitting on raised platforms.

That's just my 2 cents based on a lot of time spent in hockey arenas last decade.

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Robert Piascik

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Re: Tips for moving to Arena sound
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2016, 03:48:31 PM »

I have a couple of comments:

I would contradict John about the raised platform for FOH. It will help you to see the stage better if you can be raised at least slightly. And I wouldn't necessarily stretch as far back as the snake will allow. If you get too far away, you might not be able to hear very well, which may result in you mixing louder than you want to. I learned the hard way when an inexperienced BE blew up our system partially because I set the FOH too far back.

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Mac Kerr

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Re: Tips for moving to Arena sound
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2016, 04:07:40 PM »

If you get too far away, you might not be able to hear very well, which may result in you mixing louder than you want to. I learned the hard way when an inexperienced BE blew up our system partially because I set the FOH too far back.

Unless you mean well beyond the back of the audience, if you can't hear they can't hear. Even the cheap seat should get good audio.

Mac
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Matthew Knischewsky

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Re: Tips for moving to Arena sound
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2016, 04:11:43 PM »

Some really good advice in this thread.
Larger venues mean you spend more time on your feet moving from location to location for the set-up and troubleshooting. Everything is farther away. The extra time it takes to do tasks can add up more than you might think. Even a trip to the washroom takes longer. You may not be able to get your truck/trailer right where you need it making the equipment push longer.



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Re: Tips for moving to Arena sound
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 04:15:49 PM »

"When you play music in a room designed for basketball, you're taking your chances."

...Frank Zappa interviewed before a performance by the MOI and the LA Philharmonic at UCLA
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Re: Tips for moving to Arena sound
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 04:15:49 PM »


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