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Author Topic: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers  (Read 7676 times)

Josh Rawls

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DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« on: February 06, 2016, 10:44:15 pm »

I just used my new SRX812P and SRX8181SP speakers today. When I configured my DriveRack PA2 the active speakers were not listed but their passive counterparts were.

I ended up selecting the passive versions and setup the amp as "not listed".

Is this the best way to set it up?
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Josh Rawls

Scott Carneval

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2016, 11:04:12 pm »

No. Use the SRX connect app to apply and EQ and delay adjustments. Driverack PA2 is going to be your bottleneck with these speakers


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Scott Holtzman

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2016, 06:02:11 am »

I just used my new SRX812P and SRX8181SP speakers today. When I configured my DriveRack PA2 the active speakers were not listed but their passive counterparts were.

I ended up selecting the passive versions and setup the amp as "not listed".

Is this the best way to set it up?

Why do you need the PA2?  Is the processing in the speakers not sufficient for some reason?
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Josh Rawls

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2016, 09:39:38 am »

I wanted to use the DRPA2 for the automatic feedback filters and to keep my system flexible for use with other speakers, which does happen more often than I would like. It is built into my DJ controller case and not separate. All my connection are on the front of the DJ rack so hook-up is quick and simple. The feedback filters are nice because, as a wedding DJ, the mics are commonly used in front of the speakers for toasts, speeches, and sometimes by me on the dance floor so I wouldn't be near controls to handle feedback manually.

Also, as a wedding DJ setup time is very limited. Having to run extra Ethernet cables and setup a network is time I'd rather spend making all the wire runs look nice and neat.
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Josh Rawls

Scott Carneval

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2016, 10:48:03 am »

If you really want it, use it. But it's really not necessary.

Keep the guests 10-15' away from the speakers and feedback shouldn't be an issue.


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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2016, 11:42:17 am »

The DRPA is totally redundant in this case but for simplicity of setup and to utilize the DRPA's AFS functionality I'd suggest setting up a custom preset that has the AFS setting you want but otherwise has no crossover, EQ or limiting engaged so that you just have a pair of fullrange outputs, then connect those directly to the subs and then link from the subs to the tops and let the speakers do all the crossover, EQ and limiting processing.
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Josh Rawls

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2016, 12:30:54 pm »

The DRPA is totally redundant in this case but for simplicity of setup and to utilize the DRPA's AFS functionality I'd suggest setting up a custom preset that has the AFS setting you want but otherwise has no crossover, EQ or limiting engaged so that you just have a pair of fullrange outputs, then connect those directly to the subs and then link from the subs to the tops and let the speakers do all the crossover, EQ and limiting processing.

Thank you, that's what I will do. I understand the DRPA2 is redundant for these speakers but I need to keep it for other setups.

Thanks again to everyone for their help.
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Josh Rawls

Luke Geis

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2016, 06:42:24 pm »

The DRPA is not helping much. The AFS in the DRPA is not a life saver and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Proper setup and utilization of the speakers own processing will blow away whats in the DRPA. Feedback is a curable disease and is also mathematically calculable..... Play with the NAG and PAG theories and you will get an idea pretty quick of what you can do. Nag and PAG don't also factor in EQ correction, which if your good at, you can generally acquire 6-10db more gain than the PAG equation says. If you can't get the volume high enough in theory with PAG, then you need to rethink what your doing and try again.

I only say this because while the DRPA may make it a little easier to centralize all the needed setup scenario's, it is a bottleneck. I believe the max input level is +20dbu as is its max output! That is 4dbu shy of what the SRX speakers can handle. That means the DRPA will clip before the speakers do. This and the added noise of one more product in the chain that doesn't need to be there. The DRPA is not the greatest processors out there and if the only real intent is to use it for feedback elimination, you may as well save the money and get a Behringer unit.
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Art Welter

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2016, 07:00:56 pm »

If you can't get the volume high enough in theory with PAG, then you need to rethink what your doing and try again.
Proper setup and utilization of the speakers own processing will blow away whats in the DRPA.

I only say this because while the DRPA may make it a little easier to centralize all the needed setup scenario's, it is a bottleneck. I believe the max input level is +20dbu as is its max output! That is 4dbu shy of what the SRX speakers can handle. That means the DRPA will clip before the speakers do.
Luke,

The speakers own processing has no room or microphone EQ (no Potential Acoustic Gain adjustment other than a volume knob), which the DRPA has.   

The DRPA2 has +20 dBu output, the maximum input level of the SRX812P line input. The SRX812P would be seriously limiting well before +20 dBu, and also has a "consumer" input that maxes out at 8 dBu, (and a mic input with another 12 dB gain), the DRPA could clip the crap out of it if desired.

Art
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 07:07:46 pm by Art Welter »
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Josh Rawls

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2016, 03:49:32 pm »

The DRPA is not helping much. The AFS in the DRPA is not a life saver and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Proper setup and utilization of the speakers own processing will blow away whats in the DRPA. Feedback is a curable disease and is also mathematically calculable..... Play with the NAG and PAG theories and you will get an idea pretty quick of what you can do. Nag and PAG don't also factor in EQ correction, which if your good at, you can generally acquire 6-10db more gain than the PAG equation says. If you can't get the volume high enough in theory with PAG, then you need to rethink what your doing and try again.

I only say this because while the DRPA may make it a little easier to centralize all the needed setup scenario's, it is a bottleneck. I believe the max input level is +20dbu as is its max output! That is 4dbu shy of what the SRX speakers can handle. That means the DRPA will clip before the speakers do. This and the added noise of one more product in the chain that doesn't need to be there. The DRPA is not the greatest processors out there and if the only real intent is to use it for feedback elimination, you may as well save the money and get a Behringer unit.

I understand that feedback can be controlled by proper setup and mic placement, but try to explain all that to a drunk groomsmen doing a toast! They like to walk in front of speakers and I'm not always right at the controls to keep things in check, as much as I try to be.

I also don't always use the SRX system. I contract DJ for a company that uses passive tops and powered subs. I need some type of processor for that. To keep from having to always swap out equipment in my rack I'm trying to keep the setup static as possible.
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Josh Rawls

Rob Spence

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 04:12:37 pm »

I understand that feedback can be controlled by proper setup and mic placement, but try to explain all that to a drunk groomsmen doing a toast! They like to walk in front of speakers and I'm not always right at the controls to keep things in check, as much as I try to be.

I also don't always use the SRX system. I contract DJ for a company that uses passive tops and powered subs. I need some type of processor for that. To keep from having to always swap out equipment in my rack I'm trying to keep the setup static as possible.

I know not all of us have the same priorities but at a wedding, when the toasts are happening, working the desk is my only job !

The channel pan is your friend.



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Josh Rawls

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2016, 07:58:39 pm »

I know not all of us have the same priorities but at a wedding, when the toasts are happening, working the desk is my only job !

The channel pan is your friend.



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I am definitely at the DJ rig when I can be. Sometimes I'm trying to herd the person who is up next because, despite multiple warnings, they decide that 2 minutes before they go on is the best time to go get a drink or go to the bathroom. Ah, the joys of being a wedding DJ!

Currently I don't have a mixer beyond my Denon MC6000 DJ controller/mixer. I plan to change that soon and get a small digital mixer. When I get that the DRPA2 will likely go away.
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Josh Rawls

Luke Geis

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2016, 05:57:41 pm »

Luke,

The speakers own processing has no room or microphone EQ (no Potential Acoustic Gain adjustment other than a volume knob), which the DRPA has.   

Art

?????????? The speaker has 20 bands of EQ, compression, Limiting, delay, X over settings and a noise generator. It even has a two channel mixer to which can both be set to independent sensitivity settings. It does appear however that the max input on the 812 is 20 or 21dbu. That is not the issue though. The bottleneck is still going to be the DRPA.

PAG and NAG are mathematical equations to arrive at a theoretical result, they are not settings that you punch in and X comes out. A good engineer can beat the theoretical PAG calculation by  up to 10db with corrective eq. The point of my post being that if you can't get the NAG number you want because PAG is too low, then you need to start over and see what you can do to improve the odds.

Feedback is a curable disease. That is to say it is possible even in the worst of situations to reduce and or eliminate it. EQ is the tool most commonly used, but speaker placement and proximity to the mics is one way, the type of mic used is another as well as other tricks. Mr. Rob SPence brings up a pretty neat little trick that helps a bit in a squeeze. The pan knob has more than one use. If the presenter is in front of speaker A that will be the source of feedback. The quick and easy fix that involves no EQ at all is to simply pan the mic to the other side a little. Because you have reduced gain in the nearest speaker to the presenter, you have increased the GBF of the system as a whole. The one side is quieter, but you can now make the other side louder.

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2016, 08:05:44 pm »

I am definitely at the DJ rig when I can be. Sometimes I'm trying to herd the person who is up next because, despite multiple warnings, they decide that 2 minutes before they go on is the best time to go get a drink or go to the bathroom. Ah, the joys of being a wedding DJ!

Currently I don't have a mixer beyond my Denon MC6000 DJ controller/mixer. I plan to change that soon and get a small digital mixer. When I get that the DRPA2 will likely go away.

Why is herding the wedding guests the DJs responsibility?
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Luke Geis

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2016, 09:23:07 pm »

Doing wedding's myself and having to be a DJ at a few has shown that  Murphy's law applies to everything. If you can fill the role of a wedding coordinator, you probably will at some point. As a wedding DJ you do end up filling more shoes than you should ever have to. I empathize, but I still say that the excuses are few. The Feedback eliminator will not solve your problem. You will still get a small squeal before the unit does it's work and the user will keep doing what they did until there is no filters left to cut.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND going digital at this point. You can carry an Ipad ( or your phone even ), hand off a mic and heard a drunk tard at the same time! Then while you go back to que up the next song, you can have control of the mixer via the Ipad or your phone. If your trying to play the game of providing sound support with a DJ mixer only, you are in for a world of hard knocks. For the price of getting a small digital mixer that will exceed your current needs, you can have the ultimate in control over that of a similar priced AFS unit such as the Drive Rack.

Your problem is control over feedback and mixing on the fly, not so much distribution. So why spend money on a product that only addresses a part of the the problem, but doesn't add any mixing control? With a small digital mixer you can use it for both distribution, feedback elimination and mixing all remotely. The beauty is that it has the ability to save presets and scenes. That means you can have a setting for every venue and every PA you encounter. You will be able to mix your DJ rig and the toasts and have a much better setup for the toast mic. On top of that you can adjust things while moving around at will. The Behringer XR12 is perfect for you. It has everything you need and is the size of a small lunchbox. 
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Josh Rawls

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2016, 11:19:57 pm »

Why is herding the wedding guests the DJs responsibility?

Not wedding guests, but the wedding party.
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Josh Rawls

Josh Rawls

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Re: DriveRack PA2 & SRX Powered Speakers
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2016, 11:45:19 pm »

Doing wedding's myself and having to be a DJ at a few has shown that  Murphy's law applies to everything. If you can fill the role of a wedding coordinator, you probably will at some point. As a wedding DJ you do end up filling more shoes than you should ever have to. I empathize, but I still say that the excuses are few. The Feedback eliminator will not solve your problem. You will still get a small squeal before the unit does it's work and the user will keep doing what they did until there is no filters left to cut.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND going digital at this point. You can carry an Ipad ( or your phone even ), hand off a mic and heard a drunk tard at the same time! Then while you go back to que up the next song, you can have control of the mixer via the Ipad or your phone. If your trying to play the game of providing sound support with a DJ mixer only, you are in for a world of hard knocks. For the price of getting a small digital mixer that will exceed your current needs, you can have the ultimate in control over that of a similar priced AFS unit such as the Drive Rack.

Your problem is control over feedback and mixing on the fly, not so much distribution. So why spend money on a product that only addresses a part of the the problem, but doesn't add any mixing control? With a small digital mixer you can use it for both distribution, feedback elimination and mixing all remotely. The beauty is that it has the ability to save presets and scenes. That means you can have a setting for every venue and every PA you encounter. You will be able to mix your DJ rig and the toasts and have a much better setup for the toast mic. On top of that you can adjust things while moving around at will. The Behringer XR12 is perfect for you. It has everything you need and is the size of a small lunchbox.

So an update on everything...

I have removed the DRPA2. I no longer need it for other systems beyond my SRX rig. Also, at the last gig I was able to walk right in front of the speakers with my wireless without a hint of feedback. That gave me the confidence to loose this piece of equipment. I have added a wireless router with an ethernet switch and EtherCon connectors to my rack. I'll hook up the speakers to the network for future events.

I am currently researching a new digital mixer. It will allow me to get rid of the DBX1066 that I run my mics through. Anything to lighten the rack is a good thing.

Beyond the wedding DJ needs I also need something to mix a few DJ rigs. I am part of a group that puts on a big party at a campground for a float trip every year. This is the first year they are using my PA and lighting. There will be myself, and two other DJ's, all with our own mixing gear. We will also have a MC working the crowd with a wireless mic.

The Behringer X12 or X16 look promising. Any others I should look at? Budget can be stretched to $1500 or so. If it fits in a 2U space that would be a bonus.
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Josh Rawls
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