ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: Router directivity  (Read 14678 times)

Cailen Waddell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1428
Re: Router directivity
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2016, 12:13:28 pm »


I have been saying this for years Scott and constantly state in our forums the need for a WAP, not a router. There are two things that stop most people from understanding the difference.

1. Walk into any Best Buy or similar store and almost everything available will be a router. Hence, the "That's what I need" attitude.

2. Laymen don't know that there is a huge difference between accessing a network and routing between networks.

Point #2 is the root, or should I say route, of all evil. Laymen don't understand routing, protocols, subnets, IP schemes, and most of all, wireless limitations, power concepts, security, channel selection and more.

Another point that could be made which may help in understanding is this. Any time two (2) or more devices communicate via a specific topology and protocol with each other a network has been created.

Any time that isolated network must seek or attach to any other network utilizing the same or dissimilar protocols, hardware or topology a router must make the translation to that dissimilar network. - - UNLESS, the protocol and IP addresses are the same for both networks.

Attaching a single Ipad to a mixer amounts to the creation of a small local network, a connection between two devices using the same protocol, IP address scheme, and a topology either wired or wireless.

Attaching additional devices to that small local network does not have to include routing to or from another network, that is unless the network MUST access a dissimilar network, i.e. The world wide web.

The small local area network can be expanded, either by attaching wired devices through the use of a hub or switch, or by attaching to and accessing that local area network wirelessly.

Accessing the LAN is a key point. If the LAN is to be accessed from another state, country, or remotely, then the users requests and data must be routed using many dissimilar networks. Dissimilar because they will not use the same IP scheme or even the same topology, and hence a translation is required from LAN to LAN across the , wait for it, WAN.

99% of the time users tend to unknowingly add complexity and probable/possible failure into what should be a very simple local area network, specifically because the word router is ingrained in the layman's network verbiage, and the wrong tool is chosen and used.

let's remove the complexity and attempt to use the correct terminology. If your goal is to expand or create a small local area network comprised of a board, DAW, DSP, amplifiers, etc., your tools will be Ethernet cable, small switches or hubs, and for those devices not physically attached to the network that require wireless ACCESS to that local area network you will need an access point, commonly known as a WAP (wireless access point).

If your local area network should develop a need to attach to the world wide web, or even another network using a dissimilar IP scheme, then you will need to ROUTE your network to the dissimilar network.

A small local area network can accommodate up to 253 devices using the internal network of 192.168.1.x (x=.1 to .253) and a class "C" mask of 255.255.255.0

Also keep in mind that many people will use a router because of the routers DHCP capability. In small networks, such as those being discussed here utilizing a WAP for access there will usually NOT be a DHCP server available, which is part of the routers functionality, and hence STATIC IP addresses not only should be used, but must be used. I'll also dispel the myth that assigning static IP addresses is tedious and complex. WRONG. Static addresses are by far the easiest way to insure your devices connect. Group your devices, give them each an address on the network and your done. No need to wonder if DHCP has assigned the same address. no lease, easy to troubleshoot, and easy to find on your network.

OK, so that's all I can say without building huge complexity into the conversation, and remember sport fans, you either want to access your network, or you want to route to another network. (Bridges will not be discussed here).


And to get back on track with the OP's question. No, that piece of shit is not directional.


https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=WAP&tbm=shop

Bob - do you prefer to set static IPs vs creating DHCP reservations in small control networks?   We often have guest control devices and so having a dhcp server to hand out addresses is an advantage to me, but I can be swayed by a compelling argument in a different direction....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Chris Hindle

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2013
  • Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Earth, Sol System,......
Re: Router directivity
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2016, 12:33:37 pm »

Bob - do you prefer to set static IPs vs creating DHCP reservations in small control networks?   We often have guest control devices and so having a dhcp server to hand out addresses is an advantage to me, but I can be swayed by a compelling argument in a different direction....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No where near Bob's level, but I use static for the 50 or so clients at the office, and assign a block of 4 to DHCP for wireless "visitors"
You can do both, easily.
Chris.
Logged
Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Chuck Simon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1139
  • Pittsburgh, Pa.
Re: Router directivity
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2016, 12:43:04 pm »

Bob, that was a great post - thank you.

What are some good quality, lower priced WAP's that you would recommend, and what advantage in performance might I see compared to my Apple Airport Express? I run a very simple network, Ipad to SI Impact or Ipad to Laptop  firewired to Personus SL.
Logged

Dave Garoutte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2402
  • San Rafael, CA
Re: Router directivity
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2016, 12:57:49 pm »

All bow to the Bob! :)
Very informative post.
Logged
Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: Router directivity
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2016, 02:07:25 pm »

I am sure there are, and some day they may genetically engineer egg laying milk pigs.
I'll just leave this right here https://www.asus.com/us/Networking/OnHub-SRT-AC1900/

Disclaimer, while I didn't have anything to do with it I know of the existence of this as people in the other end of the building I work in developed it.  The RF EEs didn't claim the beamforming was anything unique so I'm sure there are others.  They just put this out as their concept for a simplified user experience version in a pretty package.
Logged

Steve Oldridge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1177
Re: Router directivity
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2016, 02:10:50 pm »

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=WAP&tbm=shop
Bob,
for the weekend warrior type (budget conscious) that needs musicians to be able to run their IEM mixes via Android/iDevice from the stage and FOH access via similar devices -- what piece of equipment would YOU recommend be the hardware to (or thru) which console and remote devices connect as a "network"?
 
For example.. an X32 console, fixed IP.. with the above needs.
combined router/wap, wap + hub, combination thereof?
Which brand/model would you recommend?
Would you recommend dual-band or not?

Thanks

« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 02:13:57 pm by Steve.Oldridge »
Logged

Rusty Stevens

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
Re: Router directivity
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2016, 04:05:19 pm »

Sigh, is this Reddit?
I was using the OP's term for ease of understanding.

Geez an IT guy should know that a router forwards data packets between network segments.

I am unaware of any RF functionality of routers.

Some routers have built in wifi access points.  It's important not to confuse the roles of these different devices.
Logged

Rusty Stevens

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
Re: Router directivity
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2016, 04:24:45 pm »

Not Bob but,
I use one of these:
http://www.linksys.com/us/p/P-WRT1200AC/
Cheap, Reliable, good range, and easy to set up.

Even with the "Beam Forming" it still behaves like an omni for the most part.

And yes it has an evil router in it, but it's a plug in, turn it on, and setup your SSID and password (if you want) affair.

Bob,
for the weekend warrior type (budget conscious) that needs musicians to be able to run their IEM mixes via Android/iDevice from the stage and FOH access via similar devices -- what piece of equipment would YOU recommend be the hardware to (or thru) which console and remote devices connect as a "network"?
 
For example.. an X32 console, fixed IP.. with the above needs.
combined router/wap, wap + hub, combination thereof?
Which brand/model would you recommend?
Would you recommend dual-band or not?

Thanks
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 04:34:02 pm by Rusty Stevens »
Logged

Steve Oldridge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1177
Re: Router directivity
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2016, 04:38:47 pm »

Not Bob but,
I use one of these:
http://www.linksys.com/us/p/P-WRT1200AC/
Cheap, Reliable, good range, and easy to set up.

Even with the "Beam Forming" it still behaves like an omni for the most part.

And yes it has an evil router in it, but it's a plug in, turn it on, and setup your SSID and password (if you want) affair.
Thanks Rusty.. I use one of these ATM, but wanted to get Bobs "perspective" after his lengthy description above.   ;)
http://www.linksys.com/us/support-product?pid=01t80000003KV7KAAW
Logged

Bob Leonard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6807
  • Boston, MA USA
Re: Router directivity
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2016, 10:15:19 pm »

A rather long and unrelated post to the OP but an interesting read none the less. Seems to have hit a sore spot  ;)

OK, Ill bite...
I get the idea that a router is needed to access the Internet, and that's what most people need so no wonder that's what is on the shelves of retailers.(no surprise there)

Can I use a WAP to connect directly to my console or do I need a switch as well?
If I need a switch, why buy 2 pieces of equipment when I can get what is required in a router?
Is the performance of a WAP that much more superior to a "combination" router WAP?


Keith,
We need to first understand that the radio/receiver in a WAP or router are governed by FCC regulations, or regulations specified by the country of usage. In the USA the maximum transmit power should be at or very close to 28dBm at both 2.4ghz and at 5ghz.

The real measure of a WAPs capability will be it's ability to receive a signal under adverse conditions, which may include through walls or other obstructions. Also, a good WAP (or wireless router if needed) should have a receiver gain of about or equal to 3dBi minimum, transmit gain of 4-6db, 15db of channel rejection and be sensitive down past -100dBm.

The cheaper the WAP, the worse the specifications will be. Also, does the WAP support MIMO (multiple in/multiple out) service, VoIP, streaming, and of course, how fast and at what frequency. I could write the definitive guide to WAP router selection, but that takes some real time that I don't have. What I might do is write a short guide for the members here who are interested.

To answer your question;

If you don't need outside world (WAN) access then a WAP is the tool needed. WAPS come in all sorts of flavors. My own WAPs often have switch capabilities built in, usually for connecting 4 to 8 additional devices. In my stage rig I have a single WAP with my board, DSP, Roland modules, and PC attached. The WAP is velcroed to the back of the rack and I expect connectivity within a 30-50' radius max. When that rack is back in the barn a single CAT6 cable attaches from the WAP to the house network, expanding the LAN and THEN allowing me to access the WWW or WAN through my Verizon fiber connection. This local area network, the house network, consists of over 20 systems or devices all connected through the rack WAP switch, WAP, gigabit switch in the basement, 100mb switch in office. Anyone with a laptop or Ipad can come into my house and attach in less than 30 seconds.

All,

Customers and visitors have no need for access to your local network with the exceptions of printers or FAX machines. In this case you are wise to allow wireless access through a router segregating your house network from the visitor network and hiding the house network within it's own subnet.

Steve O.,

A WAP with additional ports or a single port high quality WAP and 8 port gigabit switch will work just fine. Check the throughput when all devices are connected, and of course, more is better.

Chuck,

I'll post the links to the companies whose WAP you should purchase based on performance and reliability. Search for them, check the pricing, and be sure to compare all specs.


Ruckus, specifically the Zone Flex Indoor series. Outdoor series for more critical needs. The 710 is 4x4 MIMO capable of 1733 Mbps at 5ghz.

https://www.ruckuswireless.com/products/access-points/zoneflex-indoor/zoneflex-r710


CISCO. Expect to pay for what you get. All support MIMO, beam forming, and up to 1.7 Gbps.

http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/wireless/buyers-guide.html#indoorac


UniFi - UniFi AC Pro AP - Small, reliable, fast at 5ghz, but needs external 4-8 port switch (Which I actually prefer.

https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-pro/

NETGEAR - Low cost and high performance. Very reliable and easy to use and setup. This is one of the WAPs I use behind my own rigs on stage. SOHO, small office/home office AP. Four (4) ports total, 2.4Ghz only, perfect on stage supporting wired or wireless IEM solutions. A very basic WAP.

http://www.netgear.com/business/products/wireless/soho-wireless/wn604.aspx


Linksys

http://www.linksys.com/us/c/business-wireless-access-points/?sort=all&q=%3AsortByProductRank



Switches;

http://www.linksys.com/us/business-network-switches/c/network-unmanaged-switch/

http://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/switches/

My personal use includes the switch below. Well made, great throughput, easy to hide and mount.

http://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/switches/click-switches/default.aspx




 
 

 
 

Logged
BOSTON STRONG........
Proud Vietnam Veteran

I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Router directivity
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2016, 10:15:19 pm »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.082 seconds with 22 queries.