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Author Topic: Speaker measurement  (Read 11345 times)

Ben Dean

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Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2016, 08:07:26 am »

Third - you are aware that Ivan builds and designs speakers with some other guys-you-should-of-heard-of, so when he talks about the process, he knows what he is talking about.

Process - is a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end. (dictionary) He don't talk about the process, yet it was only fragments.

So lastly, it would seem that while English is clearly not your first language..... so i am left with no choice, based on how you have portrayed yourself here, but to think you are a fucking moron. Hopefully that translates for you.

Unfortunately yes, my English knowledge is very limited. But I try to write as clearly as possible, I'm sorry for my broken English. I am "fucking moron" because I want to find out and learn, because I ask questions about what I am not completely clear, I am "fucking moron". Well, if that's your opinion, so be it. Pity that I have written in this forum, because I am attacked by angry people.
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Ben Dean

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Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2016, 08:11:47 am »

Perhaps also, if we knew what your intent was, better advice could be given.
For example:

I want to save money by building my own Class A speakers, to use in my sound production for hire company.
I am a DJ just trying to build some loud speakers that sound not bad.
I am putting together a home system.
I am a hobbyist, just playing around.
I am the next Tom Danley, just trying to get started.

I'am hobbyist and time to time just play as a Dj in friend parties.
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David Allred

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Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2016, 08:15:14 am »


All manufacturers specify the  -10dB and +/- 3dB. Example: https://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/JBL.SRX718S[1].pdf

Those generally represent 2 different specs.  The +/- 3db is to describe the relative flatness of the speaker over it typical useful response range.  The -10db is simply a "how low can it go" before you no longer hear the sound, or damage the speaker trying to hear it.

Maybe you knew that, already.
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David Allred

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Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2016, 08:37:55 am »

I'am hobbyist and time to time just play as a Dj in friend parties.

Hobbyists usually don't mind spending money in ways that others may deem wasteful, or "ridiculous".  I don't think you came here to pick a fight, but had you been open and upfront about "why" you want the info, things would be different.  I would wager that many here would jump at the chance to offer advise to someone in your situation.  Someone wanting to learn the science, and willing to spend money to do so.

To be honest, I think Ivan was trying to scare you away (to protect you from costly mistakes) from building a system from scratch.

You seemed to take offense and replied aggressively, and because you took offense, Cailen went into attack mode to defend what he saw as an attack on Ivan (or the forum as an entity).

It is not too late to step back and let cooler heads prevail, I hope.  Because I would be interested in the info that might come from the discussion and reporting back of your test results.
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Ben Dean

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Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2016, 09:20:22 am »

Hobbyists usually don't mind spending money in ways that others may deem wasteful, or "ridiculous".  I don't think you came here to pick a fight, but had you been open and upfront about "why" you want the info, things would be different.  I would wager that many here would jump at the chance to offer advise to someone in your situation.  Someone wanting to learn the science, and willing to spend money to do so.

To be honest, I think Ivan was trying to scare you away (to protect you from costly mistakes) from building a system from scratch.

You seemed to take offense and replied aggressively, and because you took offense, Cailen went into attack mode to defend what he saw as an attack on Ivan (or the forum as an entity).

It is not too late to step back and let cooler heads prevail, I hope.  Because I would be interested in the info that might come from the discussion and reporting back of your test results.

I want to buy audio interface for connect PC and mixer, so I decided to use it and for measurements. Earlier I used dbx pa and RTA mic for calibrate speakers, because sometimes the party is in a small room, sometimes outdoors, so RTA helped my to get flat. But that "flat" was just theoretically I guess, because the sound was sometimes worse than without dbx. So with RTA or better mic and audio interface i could play pink noise and measure signal, then with  equalizer i can manually make flat response. Now I decided to make the speakers by free speaker plans. But my build speakers have no brand, it does not look good, friends laugh and say that you really will not make a better speaker than JBL PRX 612 or something like this class. I wonder to try build speaker, because PRX high frequencies sound very aggressive. And in order to compare the speakers I need to measure it, because to say that my speaker is not so bad without parameters like SPL, frequency response is useless.

I do not want to offend someone. But yes, honest, I take offense, because it seems that I am a rookie, so I can not make the speaker. After all, everyone started from the bottom. I think there is no need to attack human and say "fucking moron", this is really quite offensive.

I did not want "replied aggressively", I'm sorry that there were such an impression.

Now I will study http://www.rationalacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Getting-Started-with-Smaart-v7.4.pdf
Unfortunately, at the very beginning there was no such proposal, we would have avoided angers.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2016, 01:11:34 pm »

I want to buy audio interface for connect PC and mixer, so I decided to use it and for measurements. Earlier I used dbx pa and RTA mic for calibrate speakers, because sometimes the party is in a small room, sometimes outdoors, so RTA helped my to get flat. But that "flat" was just theoretically I guess, because the sound was sometimes worse than without dbx. So with RTA or better mic and audio interface i could play pink noise and measure signal, then with  equalizer i can manually make flat response. Now I decided to make the speakers by free speaker plans. But my build speakers have no brand, it does not look good, friends laugh and say that you really will not make a better speaker than JBL PRX 612 or something like this class. I wonder to try build speaker, because PRX high frequencies sound very aggressive. And in order to compare the speakers I need to measure it, because to say that my speaker is not so bad without parameters like SPL, frequency response is useless.

I do not want to offend someone. But yes, honest, I take offense, because it seems that I am a rookie, so I can not make the speaker. After all, everyone started from the bottom. I think there is no need to attack human and say "fucking moron", this is really quite offensive.

I did not want "replied aggressively", I'm sorry that there were such an impression.

Now I will study http://www.rationalacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Getting-Started-with-Smaart-v7.4.pdf
Unfortunately, at the very beginning there was no such proposal, we would have avoided angers.
An RTA is not a whole lot better than your ears.

It is not going to give you any of the information you are looking for.

Yes many of us started from the bottom.  I used to hand draw out the circuit boards for my amps/mixers/eq etc and bend the metal with a hammer.

I built all of my own speaker cabinets

I have learned A LOT over the years-both from listening to people who knew more than me and from making A LOT of mistakes and blowing stuff up.

Listening and learning can go A LONG way in saving money from making mistakes
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2016, 01:16:19 pm »



After all, I already wrote that I need Sensitivity (1w @ 1m); Continuous SPL and Max SPL.


All manufacturers specify the  -10dB and +/- 3dB. Example: https://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/JBL.SRX718S[1].pdf
NO piece of software is going to give you that information.

The best you can get is a response curve (assuming that your measurement system was calibrated properly).

Then YOU have to look at the curve and come up with some numbers.

Different people can look at the same curve and come up with different numbers.

So UNDERSTANDING the numbers/where they come from/what they mean- will go A LONG way to determine numbers that that are useful and accurate.

A fun game to play (before you start going down this road) is to do some searching online for manufacturers products that show a response graph and give the "simple numbers" you are looking for.

Then look at their graph and see how well their simple numbers agree with the graph.

There are MANY MANY cases that the numbers do NOT agree with the graph.

So THEN you have to start to ask yourself-where do the numbers come from?  What do they mean?  Is it just marketing?  Or engineering? that produces the numbers.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Steve M Smith

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Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2016, 04:18:12 pm »

making A LOT of mistakes and blowing stuff up.


This is the most important bit.  No one ever learned anything by getting it right first time.




Steve.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2016, 05:15:55 pm »


This is the most important bit.  No one ever learned anything by getting it right first time.




Steve.
It's just like doing shows.

You can do a hundred shows and everything goes just fine.  But you learn very little.

Then there is that one that all hell breaks loose and all kinds of totally unrelated things go wrong.

Yes it is a nightmare (at the time), but you LEARN a whole lot from the experience.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Bill McKelvey

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Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2016, 06:53:20 pm »

Then there is that one that all hell breaks loose and all kinds of totally unrelated things go wrong.

Combat audio anyone? We all have stories of things gone wrong.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Speaker measurement
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2016, 06:53:20 pm »


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