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Author Topic: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!  (Read 5945 times)

Mark Cadwallader

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Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2016, 04:52:16 pm »

Luke,

Something is not adding up. According to the news story you linked to, the noise restrictions only apply to the three community center buildings. Is there a different regulation that you are being told to comply with at a private residence?  I suggest that you obtain a copy of all SB noise ordinances or regulations and carefully read them.  IME, the text of laws often say something a bit different than what people think they say.  I suggest that you find out who (in city government) has jurisdiction to enforce those rules, and what penalties are imposed on violations.  That is the first step in a legal dispute -- know what the applicable law says. No sense fighting something that doesn't actually apply to you - at least in this context.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2016, 05:51:25 pm »

Thus, the guy across the street can hire a rock band to perform on his front porch, but the wedding reception inside the community center must stay quiet. Sounds like lop-sided justice to me.
But the guy with the rock band across the street isn't the Parks & Rec's (or whoever has jurisdiction over the community centers) problem.  Separate noise nuisance with the police.  P&R just wants to dodge any issues in their domain.  Although the first time a DJ starts playing gangsta rap at 130dB I think the reg's will be updated.   ::)
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Craig Hauber

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Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2016, 08:20:55 pm »

So I work in Santa Barbara; I know my life must suck right????? The city of SB is getting more and more aggressive about its abatement of noise pollution so much to the degree where this level of restriction is becoming commonplace. I did a show at a Private ranch residence with the same restrictions applied to me! It was not easy even with a football field between me and the next residence......

I am attempting to build a scientific based argument about the cause. While I sympathize with the community about noise pollution, I also disagree with the unscientific way of abating the issue. So my goal is to build a referendum of scientific information to properly regulate and argue a case for ( and or against ) this debate. While 60db is a number that can be suggested, it has no weight ( literally ) and provides only an instantaneous measurement that if measured, could be used to take a case to court! This can be one of two things in terms of goals. It seems to me the people and the city don't want to even hear a person talking as they walk by their house on the sidewalk......

1. To make it nearly impossible for compliance, allowing for easy litigation in court and subsequent fining. This means more money for the city in fines and collections. The city of SB will confiscate " EVIDENCE " for the purposes of its case. This means equipment could be taken and subsequently forfeited for public auction? This could eventually be the cities case for permanently eliminating such events at many venues. 

2. To actually give opportunity to the venue and music projects under the assumption that they gave ample room to do so?

What do you agree with? What are the OSHA rules as you understand them and how are they measured? While I could provide the information myself, I feel an open forum would have more credibility to the city in its formal decision. Similar noise restriction in your neck of the would help as well. While I feel an 80db A weighted SPL average over a 2-3 hour period is accpetable, I could be totally wrong? I feel that 10pm is a reasonable and non restrictive time given my community ( predominately night life ). All things factored, what is a more realistic SPL level and allowable SPL range for the time? Or am I in the wrong place?

Link here: http://www.noozhawk.com/article/santa_barbara_plans_to_ban_live_amplified_music_from_community_centers

There are some questions arising. Here are some updates to explain:

1. People are catching wind of this issue ( it has been on the board for a few years ) and using it as a springboard for there interests. In other words, People that don't want noise use this argument as a catchall.

2. I am not part of the debate, but am looking to get into it. I know I will need more ammo than simply OSHA regulations and other noise related facts. This is where you all come in. Your input is to help build a reasonable standard that is less opaque. I think it would be helpful that a community of professionals can provide an input to use for basis of argument.

3. Santa Barbara is a city with LOTS of regulation. It is not uncommon for an innocuous regulation to slip under the radar and then be used as the basis for a much more stringent and or controlled rule. Imagine how the current ban was enacted. If just those three places saw a $25,000 hit imagine what will happen when this new rule, which can't be adhered to realistically is enacted in all venues in the area? Half of SB is night life based, it would be a huge hit to the wedding, and live performance venue market.

To clearly state my goal on this: My objective is to present a scientific explanation as to why this current model is not fair and can't work, and then to present a reasonable and appropriate standard in which to control the issue. This standard should be fair to the neighboring community and to the performance venue.

I think your new business model needs to be just live in one of the nicest places in SoCal, but work in Ventura, Carp, Isla Vista and the central coast.
The noise ordinances were awful when I was there 4 years ago, -the SB Bowl, Carrillo Rec Ctr, West Beach Fest etc... were almost impossible events back then, -not to mention the noise barrage from the nightclub "gauntlet" on State St.! (Although the club owners just created that mess, there was no reason to have to hear the back patio of The 'Kitty from Haley St!)
I think you are fighting a losing battle in that if you reveal the physics issues with their ordinances they will just re-write them to include all that, but with equally or even lower allowed levels!
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Craig Hauber
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Luke Geis

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Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2016, 09:22:16 pm »

^^^^^^^^^ I wish I could just walk into the neighborhood and snag gigs. I'm not a salesman unfortunately and not many people know of me that way; heard of me perhaps, but certainly not in their minds eye. The interesting thing is I have probably done something in one way or another for just about everyone and everything in the area. In either case you're probably right.....

The not adding up part is that this particular news article only reflects on those three establishments where this particular ban was enforced. The issue is that the known limitations that have been in talks long before this article released have started to be used by others in the county. Separate issue indeed, but they are tying in. Before the only requirement was 80db C weighting at any adjacent sidewalk across the street from the performance. For festivals the allowed max was 80db C at FOH position, but no requirement for how far from the stage that position could be. Typically between 50' and 75' around here though, so not easy to work with really. The enforcement of the rule with other community members is the court-side debate. Those that don't want the noise at all will go to whatever length necessary to abate the issue. They quote the rule as being a county ordinance even if it isn't, but the argument of that truth has to be in court. The issue is that they have that peg in the board already. The county has banned this place for this problem and these city meetings have stated X as being the new proposed rule, this is what I want too..... What you do for one, you have to do for all..... No scientific reasoning to argue with at all. Once that gets passed county wide, you can start taking people to court for dropping a pin in front of your house.

It already is about money and SB is one very hungry money absorbing machine. The city is only putting this back on the ballot because it is losing income from the ban. It's very bait and switch if you ask me. Once the rules are in place they can be applied elsewhere and the enforcement of it will generate lots more revenue. Case in point: SB recently had a very bad parking enforcement cop....... This lady embezzled $500,000 ( that is right, 1/2 million dollars ) over the course of several years. The city just approved a $55,000 budget to look into it's cash cow and figure out how to better enforce parking and mitigate loss be it internal or external. The parking revenue for SB is about 2.5 million a year! As I mentioned SB is about 50% nightlife and as Craig can attest, has lots of night clubs and several performance venues. The last noise complaint ticket price I had heard of was running to the tune of about $400-500 dollars! So it is not a cheap ticket. That can generate a lot of income for what is a misdemeanor slap on the wrist. 

I have a DJ gig on Friday ( even I will pick low laying fruit ) and the venue is adamant that I be quiet and keep the bass under wraps. They get a lot of complaints from their neighbor. This dual purpose venue does acoustic shows and still gets complaints!

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I don't understand how you can't hear yourself

Mark Cadwallader

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Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2016, 11:40:47 pm »

It is not a mere accident that I live in Helena, Montana. I resided (not to be confused with "lived") in the Los Angeles area (Torrance) for four years in the mid-1980s. I was able to escape and return to Montana.  No regrets.

Is the Big Yellow House still there?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2016, 01:27:24 am »

It is not a mere accident that I live in Helena, Montana. I resided (not to be confused with "lived") in the Los Angeles area (Torrance) for four years in the mid-1980s. I was able to escape and return to Montana.  No regrets.

Is the Big Yellow House still there?

I grew up mostly in the San Fernando Valley but was all over the greater LA area.  I wouldn't live there now, even in a rented body.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Lyle Williams

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Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2016, 02:34:31 am »

Luke,

As Scott points out, road noise would  exceed 60 dB at the sidewalk, but an 80 dBA average would allow continuous operation at 120 dB at 30 Hz, or 110 dB at 50 Hz.

I would not want to be subjected to that level of low frequency noise for 2-3 hours any time of day unless I were being paid to provide it. That said, to achieve 120 dB at 30 Hz across the road, even with the doors propped open, would take more gear than I own since downsizing.

Art

The weather systems moving slowly overhead are about 170dB at around 5uHz.
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Gordon Brinton

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Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2016, 08:37:16 am »

But the guy with the rock band across the street isn't the Parks & Rec's (or whoever has jurisdiction over the community centers) problem.  Separate noise nuisance with the police.  P&R just wants to dodge any issues in their domain.  Although the first time a DJ starts playing gangsta rap at 130dB I think the reg's will be updated.   ::)

I hear ya. (No pun intended.) But still, trying to make a daytime noise ordinance is unreasonable and pointless. We all encounter noise in our daily routines and we learn to live with it. The mere fact that one neighbor's complaint can generate such a significant response from city hall that it now inconveniences hundreds of others is what's wrong with this country. To me, it appears to be just another case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease. The complainer gets his way because the authorities didn't have enough backbone to just say, "It's a freaking wedding celebration...deal with it". (In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the complainer's own wedding reception was a bit noisy too.) Now-a-days, a guy can build his house at the end of an airport runway, start complaining about the noise, and end up having the entire airport shut down or moved over threatening law suites. It's just not right.

I know that the Parks and Rec can make whatever rules they want. Personally, I would never rent a venue that had such idiotic daytime noise rules. I would take my rent money and go elsewhere. (See? They're still gonna lose business over it.) But the reason I am here babbling away is because the OP had asked for different points-of-view in order to build a rebuttal against them. Just trying to cover all angles in the process of answering his question.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 08:45:08 am by Gordon Brinton »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2016, 03:27:32 am »


Hello Luke,....where do I post something like this?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmHoTfT3Ea0

Luke, Clearly you have no experience in posting in well moderated professional forums and I offer some suggestions to you as you are already risking alienating the experts here and you are also going to be locked by a moderator.

1 - The site is festooned with notices that you must use your real name.  Change your display name or your account will be locked.

2 - Don't ever interrupt a thread trying to get attention to your issue that you have already posted a new topic.  You described your problem adequately in the topic however simply posting a link to a video is not going to illicit many response.  You need to describe the issue, the equipment involved and any other relevant information.  The context of the video and what aspect of it you want commented on should be provided.

Welcome to the forum.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2016, 03:38:16 am »

Luke, Clearly you have no experience in posting in well moderated professional forums and I offer some suggestions to you as you are already risking alienating the experts here and you are also going to be locked by a moderator.

1 - The site is festooned with notices that you must use your real name.  Change your display name or your account will be locked.

2 - Don't ever interrupt a thread trying to get attention to your issue that you have already posted a new topic.  You described your problem adequately in the topic however simply posting a link to a video is not going to illicit many response.  You need to describe the issue, the equipment involved and any other relevant information.  The context of the video and what aspect of it you want commented on should be provided.

Welcome to the forum.

"The Kid" is not Luke; Kid was replying to Luke (probably because he couldn't find the "new topic" button).
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: SPL requirements in my neighborhood!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2016, 03:38:16 am »


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