ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Bid Protocol Question  (Read 9782 times)

Dave Rickard

  • SR Forums
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 102
Bid Protocol Question
« on: March 26, 2011, 08:20:34 pm »

I don't want to go into details on the open forum, but--

Does anyone see any issues with bidding a small show as "50% of the lowest bid"?

I'm not worried about profit on this one, I just don't want to get bitten by something I didn't see/know.

Thanks in advance.
Logged
The wrong piece of gear at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear.

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Bid Protocol Question
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 08:29:17 pm »

I don't want to go into details on the open forum, but--

Does anyone see any issues with bidding a small show as "50% of the lowest bid"?

I'm not worried about profit on this one, I just don't want to get bitten by something I didn't see/know.

Thanks in advance.

I'm speechless.........
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Dave Rickard

  • SR Forums
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 102
Re: Bid Protocol Question
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 08:42:33 pm »

I'm speechless.........
Don't be.  Pretend, for the moment, that I'm still sane.  ;)

If I shared the details I think you'd understand.

Conventional wisdom aside, any protocol/legal issues to worry about?
Logged
The wrong piece of gear at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear.

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Bid Protocol Question
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 08:53:09 pm »

Don't be.  Pretend, for the moment, that I'm still sane.  ;)

If I shared the details I think you'd understand.

Conventional wisdom aside, any protocol/legal issues to worry about?

It seems to me that it makes the whole bid process a sham.  If I were to experience this after putting in a bid in good faith I'd be very unhappy with the outfit conducting the thing as well as anyone who went into it knowing that they were subverting the process......regardless of the (undisclosed) details. 

I believe this may well be what is called "collusion".
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 08:59:03 pm by dick rees »
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

John Livings

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 351
  • Los Angeles, California
Re: Bid Protocol Question
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2011, 09:02:05 pm »

[Does anyone see any issues with bidding a small show as "50% of the lowest bid"?]


I am sure Lots of folks write checks everyday to be part of "The Show"

Loan them your credit card, Pay the hotel bill, Rent them a limo, pick up the Bar tab.....

Post your photo on you tube. You are Famous.


[Conventional wisdom aside, any protocol/legal issues to worry about?]

I was going to suggest your reputation as a Sound Professional (You seem to have already left no doubt about that with your Post)

Regards,  John

Logged

Dave Rickard

  • SR Forums
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 102
Re: Bid Protocol Question
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2011, 09:17:36 pm »

It seems to me that it makes the whole bid process a sham.  If I were to experience this after putting in a bid in good faith I'd be very unhappy with the outfit conducting the thing as well as anyone who went into it knowing that they were subverting the process......regardless of the (undisclosed) details. 

I believe this may well be what is called "collusion".

Yikes!!!

Thanks Dick.  That was the info I was looking for.  End of story.
Logged
The wrong piece of gear at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear.

Dave Rickard

  • SR Forums
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 102
Re: Bid Protocol Question
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2011, 09:28:53 pm »

Whoa there John! 

If you knew me, you wouldn't make that assumption about my ethics.

I didn't know the answer, so I asked.  Simple as that.

Thanks to Dick for his excellent answer.



Logged
The wrong piece of gear at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear.

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8867
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Bid Protocol Question-What's in it for you?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2011, 10:04:38 pm »

I don't want to go into details on the open forum, but--

Does anyone see any issues with bidding a small show as "50% of the lowest bid"?

I'm not worried about profit on this one, I just don't want to get bitten by something I didn't see/know.

Thanks in advance.
And you think you can do the job?  Do you have all the required gear and knowledge and experience needed?

What is in it for you?  Remember that some bids are placed by people who have no idea what they are doing and do not the tools or skills to do the job-and you want to do it FOR HALF?

Maybe there is something we are missing here.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Randall Hyde

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 597
Re: Bid Protocol Question
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2011, 11:03:14 pm »

I don't want to go into details on the open forum, but--

Does anyone see any issues with bidding a small show as "50% of the lowest bid"?

I'm not worried about profit on this one, I just don't want to get bitten by something I didn't see/know.

Thanks in advance.

The first large job I ever did (large it terms of length of the gig, not so much the equipment I used -- it was actually little better than a speakers on sticks job, but it lasted a month).  I cranked the numbers out and figured, "gee, if I work for a stage I'll have to buy to do this job, I can turn a positive cash flow at about $11,000." The next lowest bid was $75,000.  I almost lost the gig because they couldn't believe I could do it for $11,000 versus the $75,000 of the next highest bid. They made the guy come back with a revised bid. He came down to $45,000 and stopped there.  I got the gig, despite the reservations of the people hiring me.

Long story short, I've been doing the job ever since. I'm charging a lot more money now, but I proved I could do the job by grossly underbidding everyone else. Each year the job goes out to bid, each year I'm about 33-50% less than the *next lowest bid*.

Gee, I'm paying *real* employees (workman's comp, taxes, insurance, etc.), buying lots of gear each year to do the show (an average of about $5,000 per year for this particular gig), and I still come out having cash left over in the cigar box at the end of the month.

The main thing is that I *own* everything I use. I don't rent. The only "non-business" thing I'm still doing is that I run my business out of my garage (so I don't have the overhead of office/warehouse space).

If you're pretty sure you'll get repeat business, don't be afraid to put in a low-ball bid. In time, you'll get the price up and things will be cool. However, it's a lot harder to displace an existing company that the client is satisfied with, even if you do come in with a much lower bid. So if you have an open bid and you have the opportunity to get a long-term contract (or get to be the sound company that they're happy with), by all means do what it takes.

That being said, be prepared to do whatever it takes to make the client happy and keep them happy. That has worked *real* well for me. I can't you how many clients I've gotten because the clients were tired of working with "grumpy sound men" or were tired of being told "well, you didn't pay for this, so I'm not going to bring it as part of my kit" (such as a few extra microphones). You're hired to solve problems, not be the source of problems.

As for stating in your bid "50% of the lowest bid." Well, there are two scenarios I see happening here:
1) the client doesn't take you seriously.
2) the client figures they can hire you for whatever they feel like paying you (making up a low-ball bid).

I have often told some perspective clients "I can beat whatever price you're getting right now." Some of those clients told me they were getting the sound donated. No, I can't beat that price. :-)
Logged

Dave Rickard

  • SR Forums
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 102
Re: Bid Protocol Question
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 11:17:48 pm »

If you're pretty sure you'll get repeat business, don't be afraid to put in a low-ball bid. In time, you'll get the price up and things will be cool. However, it's a lot harder to displace an existing company that the client is satisfied with, even if you do come in with a much lower bid. So if you have an open bid and you have the opportunity to get a long-term contract (or get to be the sound company that they're happy with), by all means do what it takes.

And there you go. 

It's a dormant venue brought back to life by people I have no relationship with yet (they just moved here to reopen this). 

I enjoy an excellent reputation, but I got seriously low-balled on the first show, and I'd like the opportunity to demonstrate why we are the *best* choice for an ongoing relationship, even though we're not the cheapest.

Nothing improper going on, I just want to show our capabilities before long-term decisions are made.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 11:34:08 pm by Dave Rickard »
Logged
The wrong piece of gear at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Bid Protocol Question
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 11:17:48 pm »


Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.025 seconds with 25 queries.