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Author Topic: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?  (Read 5372 times)

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2015, 06:51:16 pm »

Jesse...

From your description of the "enhanced single mic" technique I'm assuming acoustic music, likely bluegrass or classic country/traditional music.  Speaker positioning aside, I would encourage you to delay the mains 5-8 milliseconds to help localize the sound to the performers rather than the loudspeakers. 
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2015, 07:11:44 pm »

So maybe something along these lines?

EDIT:  Although, looking at this now, it would probably make more sense (and be easier) to put the mains vertically...
Earlier you mentioned "stereo".

In a "proper stereo" system, each of the stereo speakers needs to cover the room fully-or else everybody is not getting the same sound.

In the current diagram-if you pan something to the left-the people on the right are out of the pattern.

You need (should?) look for what is best for the majority of the people-not just a few in the middle.
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Ivan Beaver
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Jesse L Friesen

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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2015, 07:15:19 pm »

Jesse...

From your description of the "enhanced single mic" technique I'm assuming acoustic music, likely bluegrass or classic country/traditional music.  Speaker positioning aside, I would encourage you to delay the mains 5-8 milliseconds to help localize the sound to the performers rather than the loudspeakers.

Thanks for the tip! I hadn't really thought about that before, but it definitely makes sense. The band/stage is set up very similar to bluegrass, but the style is pretty far from it (although they have played Winfield) - I'm not really sure how to describe it, but your acoustic music description works.
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Jesse L Friesen

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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2015, 07:18:12 pm »

Earlier you mentioned "stereo".

In a "proper stereo" system, each of the stereo speakers needs to cover the room fully-or else everybody is not getting the same sound.

In the current diagram-if you pan something to the left-the people on the right are out of the pattern.

You need (should?) look for what is best for the majority of the people-not just a few in the middle.

We would be running the system in mono. There really isn't a need for stereo capability.
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JL Friesen

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2015, 07:59:24 pm »

We would be running the system in mono. There really isn't a need for stereo capability.
Then I would start with a single speaker in the CENTER and fills for the sides.

This will accomplish several things.

Since you are talking about 1 mic-I assume it would be towards the middle of the stage.

The center speaker (with the others properly delayed and eqed) will provide localization to that position.

With speakers on the side-the "sonic location" will be towards the sides.

You would also have less interference with a single center + fills setup.

Unless there is some physical reason-I would NEVER start with a mono system with speakers on the sides.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2015, 08:02:17 pm »

Then I would start with a single speaker in the CENTER and fills for the sides.

This will accomplish several things.

Since you are talking about 1 mic-I assume it would be towards the middle of the stage.

The center speaker (with the others properly delayed and eqed) will provide localization to that position.

With speakers on the side-the "sonic location" will be towards the sides.

You would also have less interference with a single center + fills setup.

Unless there is some physical reason-I would NEVER start with a mono system with speakers on the sides.
And before you start to "think" that 2 speakers is better than 1 because you have 2 ears, consider that the SPEAKER part is your MOUTH-and most people only have 1 mouth.
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Jesse L Friesen

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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2015, 08:28:39 pm »

And before you start to "think" that 2 speakers is better than 1 because you have 2 ears, consider that the SPEAKER part is your MOUTH-and most people only have 1 mouth.

That's a really good point - I hadn't thought of it that way.  So what about something similar to "Option A" but with the center speaker moved forward and the smaller side fills brought further out? The larger 12" side "fills" would be able to handle the low freq better than the 10" center. On another note, the lowest freq instrument is an upright bass, which is ran through an amp, and not normally in the mix (but that could always change). Generally there is just rhythm guitar an vocals through the main mic in the center of the stage, except when the fiddle or mandolin takes a lead break. Otherwise the fiddle and mando are 3-4 feet to the right and left of the main mic on directional condensers.
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JL Friesen

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2015, 11:52:21 am »

That's a really good point - I hadn't thought of it that way.  So what about something similar to "Option A" but with the center speaker moved forward and the smaller side fills brought further out? The larger 12" side "fills" would be able to handle the low freq better than the 10" center. On another note, the lowest freq instrument is an upright bass, which is ran through an amp, and not normally in the mix (but that could always change). Generally there is just rhythm guitar an vocals through the main mic in the center of the stage, except when the fiddle or mandolin takes a lead break. Otherwise the fiddle and mando are 3-4 feet to the right and left of the main mic on directional condensers.
As long as the L/R speakers were NOT used, and things moved around a little, that could work.

When you add the L/R speakers, you introduce all sorts of combfiltering (notches in the response) due to the different signal arrival times at different seats.
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Jesse L Friesen

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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2016, 08:49:47 pm »

Well, it turns out the center speaker over the stage isn't an option... The ceiling in the building is only 12' not 15' like I had originally thought. Due to that, the speaker would hang too low to be "visually appealing" (words of the operations mgr at the venue). Also, there is a big painted mural on the entire wall behind the stage, and they don't want the center of that to be covered up. I'm back to thinking about the two clustered pairs on either side of the stage, angled slightly down, but want to make sure there isn't a better option that doesn't require a large speaker or cluster in the center. Any ideas, or is the modified option c my best bet? Thanks to everyone for the help so far!!
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JL Friesen

lindsay Dean

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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2016, 02:11:02 pm »


'two clustered pairs on either side of the stage, angled slightly down,  that doesn't require a large speaker or cluster in the center."
                                       will not work well........at all
                     Ivan has preached the acoustic gospel, but you can
                 to quote mythbusters " reject reality and insert your own"
.         They will have to decide if they want it to look good or sound good.
     just trying to save you embarressment when it sounds different but still bad.
 
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Re: Installed Sound System Configurations - Which of these is the best option?
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2016, 02:11:02 pm »


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