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[Jesse L Friesen]

Hello all! I'm working on configuring a new installed system for a local business that I help out from time to time. Their current system has so many dead zones in it, not to mention feedback issues. Basically they're using six EV SX-80pi fill speakers to cover a 60'x60' building that's used for live music. The owner bought a Electro-Voice X-Array system that had been used less than 10 times over three months at and auction a few years back, and its been sitting in storage since then, other than the SX-80s.  I have all of the amplifiers and crossovers needed for the Bi-Amped Xi speakers, and the cabling is already in place from the sound board to the amplifier/processing rack.

Here's a little info on the building, equipment, and general use:
> The building is 60'x60' with approx 15' ceilings. It's pole-barn-type construction, so there are no supports in the middle of the building, and there are joists every 8' in the ceiling. The weight handling has been tested, and can easily support a flying speaker system. there is a 20'x12' stage centered on the south wall, approx 2' high.
> For amplifiers, there are two EV CPS2.11 2-channel amps, one EV CPS2.8 2-channel amp, and on EV CPS2.4 2-channel amp.
> For speakers, they have two EV Xi-1152A/64F 15-inch two-way speakers, two EV Xi-1122A/85F 12-inch two-way speakers, one EV Xi-1192A 18-inch subwoofer, and six EV SX-80pi 8-inch two-way speakers. Obviously, that's way more than needed for the room, but that's what's available.
>The building is generally used for acoustic music shows. Mostly, the band uses a single Rode NT-2000 condenser, with a pair of Rode NT5 condensers for the instruments. They handle feedback control with a Sabine SM820-U, but they wind up pulling A LOT out in the EQ, both on the Carvin S/L 24 board and the 31-band two-channel rackmount EQ.

So now that the "backstory" is out of the way, here's what I need help with:
I've posted two configuration options (and the current setup), and would like to know which is the best option (if either), or what route I should go.  I've been doing live sound and studio engineering for years, but have never had to do a permanent installation. Hopefully someone here can tell me if I'm even on the right track!

Thanks in advance for the help!

JL Friesen

[Mac Kerr]

Hello all! I'm working on configuring a new installed system

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Mac

[Brian Bolly]

Hi Jesse,

A couple questions based on your drawings and descriptions:

- How is the seating (if any) configured?  Center aisle?  Varies per performance?
- Is anyone (management, bands, promoters, etc) going to complain about not having a 'stereo' PA?
- The drawing looks like you are intending to put the boxes on their sides.  Any particular reason?  Could they go vertically?
- Any reason for putting those side stage fills 4' onstage and 4' upstage?

[Keith Broughton]

Option C...
Similar to option B but the main speakers farther apart and the side fills very close to the mains.
Think of a 2 speaker array left and right.

[Tim McCulloch]

Jesse, is this for the Rose?

[Ivan Beaver]

Here are a couple of things to keep in mind.

First off, the "rated" coverage patterns are NOT the pattern across the full range of the speaker.

In some cases, the pattern is only for the top 2 or 3 octaves.

It takes large horns to control down lower.

Next.  The actual coverage will be different in  the 3D (real) world than when drawn on a 2D map.  The coverage will be wider than what is drawn.

With any loudspeaker system, the "goal" is to emulate nature.  Think of dropping a pebble in a pond and the ripples coming off.

You DO NOT want pebbles in other places producing ripples that will interfere with other "pebbles"

ESPECIALLY you do not want "pebbles" that produce waves that go in different directions than the "main pebbles".

[Jesse L Friesen]

A couple questions based on your drawings and descriptions:

- How is the seating (if any) configured?  Center aisle?  Varies per performance?

My bad, I forgot to mention the seating... There is a center isle about 5' wide from the stage to the back of the room. The seating is always the same: rows of tables and chairs angling slightly forward from the center isle.  As the venue is not always filled to capacity, we try to fill the front center and radiate out and back instead of filling the entire front row. This is mainly due to the outside end of the front row lining up with the front of the stage, as well as the band being clustered around a single mic at the center of the stage.

- Is anyone (management, bands, promoters, etc) going to complain about not having a 'stereo' PA?

The system is currently set up as 'stereo,' but the only time it's truly used as stereo is for background music while people are coming in.  In the last four or five years, there hasn't been a single time where we've needed or used the stereo capabilities.

- The drawing looks like you are intending to put the boxes on their sides.  Any particular reason?  Could they go vertically?
- Any reason for putting those side stage fills 4' onstage and 4' upstage?

The venue owners want to keep things the way they are, with the speakers pretty well hidden, but we've been able to convince them that the sound could be a lot better by reconfiguring the layout. In an attempt to keep them happy, I planned on hanging the speakers sideways, to keep them more "low profile." The 1152/64s have rotatable horns, so they would be better used in that type of configuration.
The location of the fills is due to the approx. joist placement, but we are able to add more supports.

[Jesse L Friesen]

Jesse, is this for the Rose?

Yes it is. Orin and I have gotten so tired of repairing the current system... We replaced the "mains" with the SX80s two or three years ago when we discovered that the horns on the old peaveys blew. We are in the process of re-wiring and cleaning everything up, and want to go ahead and set the building up with the best speaker configuration that we can. The new owners aren't nearly as anal about "their way or the highway" as Thomas was, so they've given us a lot of freedom. There's another guy who's been hanging around lately that's been trying to talk them into buying his stuff and letting him install it, but Orin and I have discovered that he doesn't really know as much as he says (or thinks) he does, and has been blowing a lot of smoke. Not to mention that the stuff he has looks like it was pulled from a bombed-out building... I'm looking to get advice from people who know something about audio installation and the physics of sound.

[Jesse L Friesen]

Option C...
Similar to option B but the main speakers farther apart and the side fills very close to the mains.
Think of a 2 speaker array left and right.

So maybe something along these lines?

EDIT:  Although, looking at this now, it would probably make more sense (and be easier) to put the mains vertically...

[Jesse L Friesen]

EDIT:  Although, looking at this now, it would probably make more sense (and be easier) to put the mains vertically...

Here is Option C with the speakers hanging vertically:

[ProSoundWeb Community]