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Author Topic: New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas  (Read 2872 times)

William Schnake

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New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas
« on: December 21, 2015, 08:54:00 am »

We are purchasing (6-8) Martin Mac 250 Entour spots along with (6) Martin Mac 600 washes.  I know that these are both discontinued fixtures, however we are looking at using them for our mid size shows.  Most of these shows are for the older '80s/'90s bands that haven't had any hits in the last 20 years or so.  We are working on mainly 32' to 36' side stages with a stage depth of 28'.  Not a huge stage, but not a small stage.  Our shows are at mainly indoor venues. 
Power is not a concern as we have 200 amps of 3 phase power available for any given show specifically for lighting.

I am think of deploying the fixtures as follows 600/250/600/250/600/250/600/250/600/250/600 with about 2.5 feet between the center of each fixture.  This leaves one 250 as a spare or I could buy another one and attach the two of them to the downstage truss.  All of the Martins come with the Martin Road Cases.

My question(s):

Is the 600/250/600/250/600/250/600/250/600/250/600 going to provide plenty of lighting on the upstage truss?
Do we need to add any LED Pars to the upstage truss in order to add another look to what we are doing?  We will be using some LED Pars around the drums and possibly amps in order to add another type of light to the stage.
Does it make sense to have either (3) 250 spots on truss throughout the stage or put (2) 250 spots on the downstage truss to use as an audience effect?

My Reasoning:

The reasoning for purchasing this lighting is that the price is amazingly affordable.  This lighting along with the lighting we currently have will save about $1,200 a show in lighting rental.  We will use this setup for a minimum of 18 shows this year.  That is a $21,600 rental savings against a $6,800 investment which is a real savings of $14,800 in the first year.  We currently are paying an average of $1,800 per show for lighting.  We will still be paying $600 a show for the LD and the rental of his Hog 4 controller.

Last note:
We are a sound production company not a lighting company however, with this type of rental savings and being able to hire my lighting talent, I think this makes sense.

Any thoughts or concerns that you in this forum have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Bill
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2015, 01:51:47 pm »

What does your LD think?  Also $600 a show for an LD and a console is a steal...    I always like to have a system of wash lights, a system of waving head washes, and a system of moving head spots.  But I think what you are proposing is certainly serviceable.   I would want a couple of the moving head units on the ground but that's me... And there is certainly enough there, it's just where the LD wants it. 


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William Schnake

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Re: New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2015, 03:14:15 pm »

What does your LD think?  Also $600 a show for an LD and a console is a steal...    I always like to have a system of wash lights, a system of waving head washes, and a system of moving head spots.  But I think what you are proposing is certainly serviceable.   I would want a couple of the moving head units on the ground but that's me... And there is certainly enough there, it's just where the LD wants it. 


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Cailen, thanks for the response.  We are getting the lights from the company that the LD we will be using for most of our shows owns.  We do not currently have an in-house LD.  He told me that he believes this will cover about 90% of the shows we do and that we can augment this setup by getting additional movers from his company if needed.  I also know that he likes to use truss stands and have some of the lighting mounted at the 4 - 5 foot high level.  That is why I was think that if we had 6 washes on the back and 5 spots that would leave me 3 spots that I could have on the floor or on vertical truss stands. 

I currently own another (16) 7x10 Quad RGBW leds and am thinking of purchasing an additional (12/16) 18x15 RGBAWU for a front truss.  That being said, I still like a 24 - 30k conventional front truss except for the power draw.

Thanks for all of you help and insight.

Bill
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2015, 03:51:05 pm »

Bill I agree, it takes an expensive led to emulate a good incandescent....   I think the rig you have is sized just fine for what you propose and the financials sound inline.

It may be worth a call to Martin to make sure replacement parts, should they be needed are still available and will be for a few years. 


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Jeff Lelko

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Re: New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2015, 04:19:43 pm »

I agree that buying used, name-brand movers can be a huge cost savings (by an order of magnitude).  Just be highly selective of the used movers you choose!  If you're getting the units from the company that your LD owns then you should be good to go, but still make sure you're comfortable pulling them apart should any maintenance or repairs be necessary. 

-Jeff
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John Fruits

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Re: New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2015, 07:08:35 pm »

When considering older units you can also check with LightParts.
http://www.lightparts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT
You can get an idea of what parts are available.
You should also search out online manuals just to see if they are available, you might also consider an additional cheap laptop or tablet with a pdf viewer for manuals and such for all your gear. 
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Tim Weaver

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New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2015, 01:25:37 pm »

For me, personally, and most of the LD's I know. They wouldn't like having an odd number of either light. Just spread them out on the truss so that you get 3 of each type on each side of center. Leave the center empty.

Its totally OK to have 2 of the same lights next to each other. It's also fine if you just had little groups of 3 spaced out on the truss. I would probably group them in 3's like this:

WsW     sWs           sWs     WsW



After that, if you happened to have anything like Pars, Led pars, ACL's, molefay's or other blinders you have a place to hang them


So you could do:

WsW  PP  sWs  P      P   sWs   PP  WsW


That would be just 1 Soco and 6 pars run up the truss. Or replace that with LED pars, or strobes or blinders or whatevs.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 01:30:54 pm by Tim Weaver »
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William Schnake

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Re: New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2015, 08:14:27 am »

For me, personally, and most of the LD's I know. They wouldn't like having an odd number of either light. Just spread them out on the truss so that you get 3 of each type on each side of center. Leave the center empty.

Its totally OK to have 2 of the same lights next to each other. It's also fine if you just had little groups of 3 spaced out on the truss. I would probably group them in 3's like this:

WsW     sWs           sWs     WsW



After that, if you happened to have anything like Pars, Led pars, ACL's, molefay's or other blinders you have a place to hang them


So you could do:

WsW  PP  sWs  P      P   sWs   PP  WsW


That would be just 1 Soco and 6 pars run up the truss. Or replace that with LED pars, or strobes or blinders or whatevs.
Thanks for all of the great advice guys.

As far as the maintenance of the movers, that will fall to the company we are purchasing the lighting from.  They are literally 15 minutes from my shop.  We are putting in place a maintenance contract including rates for repairs.  The person who owns the shop has a good supply of parts and assures me that he can locate anything we need.  They will also be able to supply us with a loaner unit until ours is repaired if needed at no additional cost for the first 2 years of ownership.  After the first two years we would have to rent, at a very reasonable rate while our light is being repaired.  It should also be noted that Martin road cases are being purchased with the lights, hopefully, this will keep the maintenance load down.

Tim, since I will be the owner rather than the operator, I will let the LD decide how to deploy the lighting.  The exception to this is if the rider calls for a specific lighting plot, then we will follow the rider.  If it was me running the rig, I do like the options that you have proposed for intermixing the lights. 

Fortunately, I handle the sound and work on the idea of hiring the talent to run the lighting.  I like to stick with what I know best and that would be audio production.  I think that by going this route, we will save a substantial amount of money in lighting rentals in 2016 and beyond.

Thanks
Bill
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Bill Schnake - Owner Schnake Sound & Light

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William Schnake

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Re: New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 10:12:09 pm »

All, just to close this thread out, we ended up purchasing 12 Mac 600 washes and we are in the process of picking up 6 Mac 250 Profiles.  I found a deal and went a little further than I thought that I would, but we will use them all.  We are also now renting them in our area.  I figure if we have them in our inventory we might as well keep them working.

Thanks for all of the advice.

Bill
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Bill Schnake - Owner Schnake Sound & Light

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New Upstage Lighting Truss for next year - ideas
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 10:12:09 pm »


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