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Author Topic: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)  (Read 24116 times)

Nate Zifra

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2015, 09:46:03 AM »

Thanks again everyone for the replies.  I will definitely be getting the combiner.  I'm also strongly considering the Shure PA805 paddle.  I have a couple questions with regard to some scenarios we may face. 

1.  The wireless may be all side stage.  Considering some places are very small (bar corner), is a paddle antenna not a good solution in that case?  I've read it is possible to be to close to the transmitting antenna.  In that case, would it be best to stack the rack of iems on top of some equipment and use the standard 1/4 wave?

2. IEMs may have to be located at FOH at times, usually no more than 50 feet in front.  Paddle antenna should be ok on a mic stand up high over the crowd in this case.  Any concerns?

3. We may at some point update the wireless mics to the BLX rack, two units, which would most likely end up racked with the iems.  To remote the antenna for these, I was thinking of purchasing two 1/2 wave omni's and mounting them on a stereo mount mic stand.  Would this method be ok when also using the paddle antenna for the iems?

3(a)  To save setup time, could the 1/2 wave omni's and paddle antenna be mounted on one mic stand?  Paddle mounted in between the two omni's?

Thanks again.


Cost,  The rack the transmitters are mounted into.   Height is your friend in Wireless,  getting the combiner in the rack and sending up one antenna on a stand will spead up the setup and tear down.

Transmitters need to be away from other receivers and computer or digital gear.  Using the remote antenna and a cable to connect will make your system more reliable.  20 to 30 inchs between transmitters and receiver antenna.  Digital effects, Digital mixers and other devices can cause interference.  So the remote getting antennae high and separated some would say yes very smart move. 

Looks good to have one antenna.  Transmit,  two more for the receivers.  But Your receivers for the instruments and mics may not have removable antenna with a distribution amp.   This can make the stage area look cluttered.  If the receivers can be connected to an antenna distribution and you can use two antenna connected tot he distribution to give to each receiver than you will be making the setup and tear down quicker, along with a cleaner stage by having just the three antennae.
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Pete Erskine

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2015, 10:42:49 AM »

Thanks again everyone for the replies.  I will definitely be getting the combiner.  I'm also strongly considering the Shure PA805 paddle.  I have a couple questions with regard to some scenarios we may face. 

1.  The wireless may be all side stage.  Considering some places are very small (bar corner), is a paddle antenna not a good solution in that case?  I've read it is possible to be to close to the transmitting antenna.  In that case, would it be best to stack the rack of iems on top of some equipment and use the standard 1/4 wave?
Often in small venues I switch to whips for my mics and Comms.
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2. IEMs may have to be located at FOH at times, usually no more than 50 feet in front.  Paddle antenna should be ok on a mic stand up high over the crowd in this case.  Any concerns?
50' is not so bad.  Line of sight is paramount.  a mic stand, even on top of a rack may not be enough.  Bodies suck up a lot of RF.
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3. We may at some point update the wireless mics to the BLX rack, two units, which would most likely end up racked with the iems.  To remote the antenna for these, I was thinking of purchasing two 1/2 wave omni's and mounting them on a stereo mount mic stand.  Would this method be ok when also using the paddle antenna for the iems?
I never recommend mounting IEM in the same rack as mics.  The TX can radiate even within the rack and will affect the sensitivity of the wireless systems.  If you must, place them at opposite ends of the rack with a metal shelf or drawer between them.
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3(a)  To save setup time, could the 1/2 wave omni's and paddle antenna be mounted on one mic stand?  Paddle mounted in between the two omni's?
Make sure your TX antennas are at least 6-8' away from the RX antennas and if possible in the null of the RX antenna.  RX antennas need to be at least 3-4' apart to take advantage of diversity.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 11:27:01 AM by Pete Erskine »
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Keith Broughton

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2015, 01:10:28 PM »

The difference between various english speaking nations is really down to the demise of latin in schools and grammatical laziness :)
Agreed.
 Latin is where the lectern (to read)and podium (raised platform)has the root of their names and their use gets blurred.
So, if someone is at the lectern with an RF mic, you might want to have your antennas(e) on a podium to get them up higher  ;D ;D

I worked with a major band once where the monitor tech had the IEM TX antenna on the same stand within 12" of the receiving antennas. ::)
Had to show him how many more freqs his receivers would find if the TX antenna was farther away.
"Well, it's been working so far" Yes, but it doesn't make it right.
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Pete Erskine

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2015, 02:21:18 PM »

I worked with a major band once where the monitor tech had the IEM TX antenna on the same stand within 12" of the receiving antennas. ::)
Had to show him how many more freqs his receivers would find if the TX antenna was farther away.
"Well, it's been working so far" Yes, but it doesn't make it right.

Here is a major artists monitor antenna setup...mics and 16 channels of ears. "It's worked everywhere!"

I will admit that in this venue the furthest musician was 20' away.....
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 02:24:47 PM by Pete Erskine »
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Nate Zifra

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2015, 02:00:31 PM »

Thank you again for the replies.

Do you get a little more leeway with placement if the mics are a different band than the iems?

Thanks.
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Pete Erskine

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2015, 03:16:00 PM »

Thank you again for the replies.

Do you get a little more leeway with placement if the mics are a different band than the iems?

Thanks.

Not really.  The degradation of the RX is in the overload of the front end of the RX before frequency takes part.  If the higher power IEM system is radiating into the RX at a greater power than the Mics which are further away and lower power, the RX will try to protect itself or limit the RF in and therefore make the correct frequency harder to receive.

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Mike Devore

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2016, 05:11:22 PM »

I will be using 9 IEM (PSM-900) transmitters soon.  I plan to rack them in one rack but I would like to mount the antenna's on the back of the rack.  At this time I cant afford to do the distros.  If i mount all 9 on a 2U rack plate, what problems will I have ? The spacing between them would be about 2" ...
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Rob Spence

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2016, 06:42:04 PM »

I will be using 9 IEM (PSM-900) transmitters soon.  I plan to rack them in one rack but I would like to mount the antenna's on the back of the rack.  At this time I cant afford to do the distros.  If i mount all 9 on a 2U rack plate, what problems will I have ? The spacing between them would be about 2" ...

Nine transmitter antenna that close is going to create intermod problems. The RF gurus will surely jump in here.

When you have more than a couple of iem transmitters, a combiner is a necessary item. You should have bought 8 and the combiner.


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Mike Devore

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2016, 08:06:56 PM »


Nine transmitter antenna that close is going to create intermod problems.
     I had expected the reply on this...  So until i can afford the distro, I'm guessing the best thing i can do is spread the transmitters out...  humm  Thanks for the reply tho.   
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Henry Cohen

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2016, 10:16:10 PM »

You should strongly consider renting an 8 input combiner if you don't have the budget to purchase one now. The time and annoyance factor in running 8 remote antennas to appropriate locations alone will make it worth it, not to mention the cost for the coax runs (don't skimp on the coax; it'll bite you hard), antennas (don't skimp on this either) and mic stands may be a significant contribution toward the price of a combiner.
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Henry Cohen

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Re: IEM Antenna combiner (when is it necessary?)
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2016, 10:16:10 PM »


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