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Author Topic: "Age-ism" In Live Sound  (Read 13073 times)

Brandon Scopel

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Re: "Age-ism" In Live Sound
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2015, 08:35:08 am »

Also, make sure people don't take advantage of you. I did a three day gig last week for a retirement community that I brought in 4 channels of ulxp with disto and paddles, x32, and 2 rmx2450 to power their speakers (since they try to run 4 mrx515 off one side of a xti1002). They only paid me $150 because it was 'good experience'. I have been doing their shows for the last 4 years and they don't understand that they need to pay me more when they want me to bring gear. They were not happy when I told them how much it would cost next time.

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Steve M Smith

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Re: "Age-ism" In Live Sound
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2015, 09:15:12 am »

Most people get work through word of mouth.  You need to be known to be good.

So whatever work you can get, don't just be adequate at it, excel.

Ask people if they want tea/coffee/etc. before they ask you to get it.  Coil up that pile of leads before someone asks you to. Have an interest in every aspect of the business.

After a while, people will remember you as the enthusiastic one and you will find offers of work will come in.


Steve.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: "Age-ism" In Live Sound
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2015, 09:30:33 am »

It's not HOW OLD you are, it's WHO you are.
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Robert Grueneberg

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Re: "Age-ism" In Live Sound
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2015, 10:02:47 am »

Hi guys,

Thank you all so much for your replies and advice. Without meaning to sound ungrateful for everyone's comments, I'm very much aware of the pecking order, paying the dues, picking the right guy for the job, it's not about what you know, but who you know, etc.

I'm fine with the fact that I wasn't chosen for the gig, if I'm not the right candidate, that's fine. I guess my problem is with how this individual isn't completely honest about that, and how to bring this up with him without causing any damage.

Thank you all for your advice, and if you're in the NJ/PA/NY area and are looking for young blood, please give me a shout.

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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: "Age-ism" In Live Sound
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2015, 10:24:57 am »

Hi guys,

Thank you all so much for your replies and advice. Without meaning to sound ungrateful for everyone's comments, I'm very much aware of the pecking order, paying the dues, picking the right guy for the job, it's not about what you know, but who you know, etc.

I'm fine with the fact that I wasn't chosen for the gig, if I'm not the right candidate, that's fine. I guess my problem is with how this individual isn't completely honest about that, and how to bring this up with him without causing any damage.
You need to look at it from his perspective.

There are two kinds of workers... those who make your life easier and those who don't. You need to figure out how to get in the right group.

Approaching him about why he didn't hire you is not making his life easier. Asking him about what kind of skills he needs to fill in the future makes you seem like part of the solution (maybe).

JR
Quote
Thank you all for your advice, and if you're in the NJ/PA/NY area and are looking for young blood, please give me a shout.
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: "Age-ism" In Live Sound
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2015, 10:25:55 am »


Hi guys,

Thank you all so much for your replies and advice. Without meaning to sound ungrateful for everyone's comments, I'm very much aware of the pecking order, paying the dues, picking the right guy for the job, it's not about what you know, but who you know, etc.

I'm fine with the fact that I wasn't chosen for the gig, if I'm not the right candidate, that's fine. I guess my problem is with how this individual isn't completely honest about that, and how to bring this up with him without causing any damage.

Thank you all for your advice, and if you're in the NJ/PA/NY area and are looking for young blood, please give me a shout.

It's hard with those conversations to be direct, factual, and leave your emotion at the door, but it's critical IMHO to do so, in order to have a productive conversation. But the more direct (not ugly, just clear and factual) you are, the easier the conversation will be.   Write down the points that you want to make prior to talking with the guy.   Take a break if emotions get the better of you.  Of course none of that will work if the other guy doesn't want to the conversation.


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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: "Age-ism" In Live Sound
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2015, 10:32:06 am »

Hey Robert, here's another, albeit very different, possibility.....

Maybe he sees you as an intelligent, competent, and aspiring young sound man, .......and is concerned with the prospect of independent competition...???
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Ray Aberle

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Re: "Age-ism" In Live Sound
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2015, 11:11:03 am »

Also, make sure people don't take advantage of you. I did a three day gig last week for a retirement community that I brought in 4 channels of ulxp with disto and paddles, x32, and 2 rmx2450 to power their speakers (since they try to run 4 mrx515 off one side of a xti1002). They only paid me $150 because it was 'good experience'. I have been doing their shows for the last 4 years and they don't understand that they need to pay me more when they want me to bring gear. They were not happy when I told them how much it would cost next time.

Brandon,

Were you getting the same amount each year? Had you brought this gear in the past? Was there an expectation that you would be providing this gear (and so you agreed to the rate for doing so), or did you choose to bring this extra gear to make the event better? Or did you agree to a rate, and then they dumped the extra gear request on you (maybe with short notice)?

If you agreed to the rate for providing gear, it is improper for you to complain about the rate of pay afterwards.
If you chose to bring this gear to make the event better, on your own intuition, bravo for wanting to help them make it better, but make sure they know their two options:
a) continue with the status quo, working for $150 using all their gear
b) continue with your tech services for $150, but then gear rental will cost ($XXX) additional.
If you'd agreed to the rate, and then they dumped the request on you for gear, well, you should have spoken up about the gear rental charge at that point, and not done it without appropriate rental rates. See, now, next year, when you give them the quote for their event, they're going to ask you why you didn't charge as much this year for the same gear! It's hard to raise rates once you have a dollar amount set in the client's mind, unless you are increasing the service(s) provided or the quality/quantity of gear for the event.

I'm having this challenge right now-- I generally give a bit of a gear discount for events like Arthritis Walks, Relays for Life, etc. I like to help out when I can- I mean, they're trying to raise money for a good cause. And whereas I'm not a non profit (at least that's what the accountant tells me...) and I still need to make money, I'm cool with giving them a bit of a deal. Over the years, though, I have had inconsistent discount structures. So, this year I have gone through and changed everything to reflect a consistent discount plan for all of those kinds of events. Some went up, some went down, but at least it's all the same. Some clients have noticed, though, and are asking what they're getting for the extra $100 or whatever. Fun having to explain my whole "leveling the playing field" concept.

Back to Robert- completely agreed on going in, speaking to the boss, and leveling with him. "I see I'm not getting accepted for as many calls as I would like. I'd love to work on my skills set so I can be of more use to you and your company. What can I work on to get to where I'd like to be? Also, I am super flexible, so even if you just need some extra help around the shop, I'd love to come and pitch in. I need practice soldering (as an example) -- can I help make new XLR cables?"

-Ray
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Kelcema Audio
Regional - Serving Pacific Northwest (OR, WA, ID, BC)

Brandon Scopel

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Re: "Age-ism" In Live Sound
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2015, 12:38:49 pm »

Ray,
I started using all their equipment at $100. The problem with their stuff is the wireless is all over the building and I have to collect it. Things get stored in random places as well. This time I brought the gear because I wanted make my life easier and be able to make it sound better. Everyone noticed the sound quality was much better this time around, spurring them to ask if it was theirs or not. I told them if I brought it again it would cost x amount per item.

There is not a quote since when I started, I didn't have my own company. They just assume it will cost the same even if they ask me to skip class and bring nice stuff.😃 I'm going to chat with them when the next show rolls around.



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Robert Grueneberg

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Re: "Age-ism" In Live Sound
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2015, 01:20:37 pm »

Alright, update- Took everyone's advice and went in to have a dialog in person, turns out it was just a misunderstanding on both parts. Thanks again for your help, everyone!
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