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Author Topic: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band  (Read 17609 times)

Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2015, 07:46:18 pm »

Alex,

Did you run auto-EQ on the powered speakers before listening to them?  If so, the auto EQ "corrections" may be what you are hearing and don't like. Try them without using the drive rack. I find I need little or no EQ on my prx600 rig.
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Alex Magor

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2015, 07:54:53 pm »

Alex,

Did you run auto-EQ on the powered speakers before listening to them?  If so, the auto EQ "corrections" may be what you are hearing and don't like. Try them without using the drive rack. I find I need little or no EQ on my prx600 rig.

Yes I've been testing every possible combination; Auto EQ enabled/disabled, tried DBX crossover running to speakers individually vs one cable to sub using sub's crossover and thru jack to the main, etc...  The powered speakers just have a very colored sound to them.  And they sound more directional whereas the passive boxes seem to eminate sound in all directions.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2015, 09:49:28 pm »

As to what is meant by a processed sound, I can't tell you? I would find it hard to believe that the MRX would sound better than the PRX700 series. Crystal clear highs should not be a problem with either box, but the stock settings in the PRX might have it set for a sweeter or softer top end?

My experience with the auto room correction in the DR PA and other models is similar. It sucks........ While it may have this airy clarity about it ( which the auto EQ seems to get ) it is fraught with things I don't like. I find it to utilize EQ too much and reduces potential SPL. The PA might be linear in the little window, but I doubt it is in reality.....

RTA room analyzers are time blind. They can't discern from direct sound and reflected sound. That means if the mic was set in a place where comb filtering is occurring at X frequencies, it will try and compensate for it. This may be good or bad; usually bad. It can't tell if the subs are properly aligned, it can't tell if it's a fly buzzing near it. If you go stand next to the mic, you will hear pretty much what it hears. The only difference is that it is trying to fix something that may not need fixing.

I used to use them all the time thinking I was doing more good than bad. I always had reservations about it though. It took too long, made too much noise and the results never really made the PA sound the same. The results were inconsistent. I then went about a new approach that has since paid off. Using my ears....... I have not heard a PA in it's natural state that I would say I think sounds like absolute crap. They have what I would call a " sonic character ". I listen to a speaker with no processing or trickery and can decide what it is I know will or not work with it in the space I am in. If I feel there is too much 500hz, 2khz and not enough 80hz, I will adjust those to my liking and can usually get it pretty close. What is it that is bothering me about the sound of the PA in that space? That is what I will fix. Then when the band comes on for sound check, I will fine tune it a little more. Running the EQ wizard takes at least 5mins. of time and you have to play this horrid sound for 2 mins. to do it. In theory you need to do it for both sides independently. You still have to listen to music and fine tune it. Bypass all that and just get what you want by listening first.

Your also second guessing things by immediately going to the auto EQ. If you like the sound of the MRX over that of one that is probably superior, then there might not be a need for correction at all? I am a less is more type. Every time you bring down an EQ fader, you reduce potential SPL to a degree. You can increase GBF ( gain before feedback ), but that is only half the story. The best GBF is not always the best sounding and not always the loudest either. Not that being the loudest is best, but if you have the sweetest sounding PA ever heard and you can't get loud enough to beat the band, it is useless. Conversely having a PA that has amazing GBF that sounds like absolute butt is no good either. Compromise is what it is. Just because the PA is linear doesn't mean it will sound good and just because it sounds good doesn't mean it will get loud.

As to why one amp is louder than another? The I-Tech has two input sensitivities. The QSC has only one input sensitivity. It may be very likely that the input sensitivity of the I-Tech is set to a lower one than that of the QSC? You also don't mention how the subs are ran?  Mono with the amp bridged? If it is with the amp bridged, both amps produce the same power. It is also possible that the I-Tech has limiter settings and output settings that neuter it a little? My bet is that the setting in the I-Tech are not optimized. Although the QSC is a great amp despite how simple it is. The amplification you have in not the weak link.
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Alex Magor

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2015, 08:58:00 am »

Does anyone know if it would be wise to try putting a JBL 2242h speaker inside the MRX 518 cabinets?
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2015, 10:05:49 am »

Does anyone know if it would be wise to try putting a JBL 2242h speaker inside the MRX 518 cabinets?

I wouldn't. The MRX518S, being self powered- has had its amp carefully matched to the driver. By changing that driver out, now you have a driver with different electrical (and acoustical, in the same space) performance then what the amp is expecting. You will probably experience problems... The 2242H does go lower and has a higher power handling then the stock (2044G) driver, but the likely result would be over-driving the internal amplifier as you seek the higher performance out of the newer driver. Under-sized amps/amps driven too hard will kill your driver.

-Ray
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Alex Magor

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2015, 10:56:10 am »

You must be confused with another speaker perhaps?  The MRX is a passive box.

I wouldn't. The MRX518S, being self powered- has had its amp carefully matched to the driver. By changing that driver out, now you have a driver with different electrical (and acoustical, in the same space) performance then what the amp is expecting. You will probably experience problems... The 2242H does go lower and has a higher power handling then the stock (2044G) driver, but the likely result would be over-driving the internal amplifier as you seek the higher performance out of the newer driver. Under-sized amps/amps driven too hard will kill your driver.

-Ray
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Alex Magor

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2015, 11:02:06 am »


As to why one amp is louder than another? The I-Tech has two input sensitivities. The QSC has only one input sensitivity. It may be very likely that the input sensitivity of the I-Tech is set to a lower one than that of the QSC? You also don't mention how the subs are ran?  Mono with the amp bridged? If it is with the amp bridged, both amps produce the same power. It is also possible that the I-Tech has limiter settings and output settings that neuter it a little? My bet is that the setting in the I-Tech are not optimized. Although the QSC is a great amp despite how simple it is. The amplification you have in not the weak link.  So I think my next step will be trying a QSC PL380 with an SRX 718 as well putting a 2242h speaker in the mrs cabinet.  Also just for psyche I want to check out the RCF Evox12 after hearing good reviews though I am doubtful I will prefer it tone wise to what I have now but that would be a nice backsaver if by some miracle I do prefer the sound.


Thanks for that.  So I changed the input sensitivity on the amp from 15 to 21 db and from 15 to 21db on the drive rack and still was about the same performance.  I still had to crank the mixer more then on the qsc to get as much volume out of the subs.  But what is surprising to me is that the tone seems much deeper and more natural to me through the QSC.  The crown is heavier, noisier (both with the annoying fan and through the speaker), and the tone is not as deep.  I'm getting more mid range than deep bass out of the crown.  And for the tops I still prefer the cleaner tone of the QSC.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 11:04:44 am by Alex Magor »
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2015, 11:13:31 am »

You must be confused with another speaker perhaps?  The MRX is a passive box.

Yeah, awkward, read the spec sheet too quickly; thought I saw it was powered. lolz. With that said, I probably still wouldn't personally change out the driver; the whole "box is designed acoustically for that driver" thing comes to mind. It might work, but you might not get the full advantage of the more expensive driver.

The 15 to 21dB change is the max analog input setting; not the actual Input Sensitivity. Changing the 15 to 21 or back will change the spread of sensitivity options that you get (in the Input Sensitivity Menu), but you have to still set the input sensitivity separately in its menu.

-Ray

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Alex Magor

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2015, 11:57:34 am »

A DJ told me he replaced the speaker inside his JBL MRX518 cabinet with some crazy 5000 watt speaker and put a powered amp inside the cabinet.  And he was happy with his results.  So I think its worth a shot.  Thanks for the advice on the input sensitivity.  I did play with that but when I match the setting on the drive rack to the amp input sensitivity there is no change.  Its like a game of cat and mouse.  I guess if I set the drive rack to a different setting than the amp I suppose I could cheat my way to more gain but I like the simplicity of the qsc and don't see the need for the dsp in the crown. 

Yeah, awkward, read the spec sheet too quickly; thought I saw it was powered. lolz. With that said, I probably still wouldn't personally change out the driver; the whole "box is designed acoustically for that driver" thing comes to mind. It might work, but you might not get the full advantage of the more expensive driver.

The 15 to 21dB change is the max analog input setting; not the actual Input Sensitivity. Changing the 15 to 21 or back will change the spread of sensitivity options that you get (in the Input Sensitivity Menu), but you have to still set the input sensitivity separately in its menu.

-Ray
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Brandon Scopel

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2015, 12:02:23 pm »

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Re: Help choosing crossover, amps, speakers for wedding band
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2015, 12:02:23 pm »


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