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Author Topic: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix  (Read 12404 times)

Lee Douglas

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Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2015, 11:29:09 pm »

To me it's not about the 5% of the crowd that will vocalize their opinion on how good or bad they think I mix and if they realize that the issue is with the band or not.  It's more about the other 95% of the potential clients that will never even bother to approach me for their event or production, having written me off along with band that hired me.  They can't all be gems, but you never know if your next potential client is watching the shit show your mixing right now.  If it's not good it had better at least seem like your providing for charitable reasons.
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eric lenasbunt

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Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2015, 12:50:59 am »


To me it's not about the 5% of the crowd that will vocalize their opinion on how good or bad they think I mix and if they realize that the issue is with the band or not.  It's more about the other 95% of the potential clients that will never even bother to approach me for their event or production, having written me off along with band that hired me.  They can't all be gems, but you never know if your next potential client is watching the shit show your mixing right now.  If it's not good it had better at least seem like your providing for charitable reasons.

I have been involved in a few shows over the years where I flipped my company shirt inside out. I didn't want my name anywhere near it, not because of my work, we gave our all, but there are some turds that just refuse to polish.
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2015, 07:03:14 am »

I'll see what I can do with them this weekend. They were super nice and appreciative on the first gig and kept announcing the company name all night, as well as thanked me numerous times during tear down, so I believe I have their trust. Let's see how far I can take that.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2015, 07:48:44 am »

That's the real point Scott. They announce your name, put it on screw tube, etc. and the world now associates you with a bad product. I had a town produce a video of our band at a very high profile job for a state governor once, and the video was OK but the sound was really, really bad. I wouldn't sign off on the video so it was never put on TV, and we were never invited back. Ask me if I give a shit? If you want to maintain a level of quality these are choices you need to make.
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I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

Keith Broughton

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Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2015, 07:57:19 am »

I'll see what I can do with them this weekend. They were super nice and appreciative on the first gig and kept announcing the company name all night, as well as thanked me numerous times during tear down, so I believe I have their trust. Let's see how far I can take that.
Sounds like you might have  a shot at improvement.
Update us when you see the results.
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John Chiara

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Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2015, 11:35:10 am »

When in doubt, kick them out.

I make this call on occasion. Thing is, my reputation depends on word of mouth, and if I can't make a good impression it dies t help me...and might hurt. Usually a bad quiet band at least allows me to have control of the crap...rather than fighting loud crap!
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Jonathan Betts

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Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2015, 12:28:12 pm »

About a year ago I was in your position. I had been hired by a cover band to provide PA and sound for around 15 shows. No amps on stage, but very loud monitors requested. Drummer hit so hard I could barley get vocals above a 105dba slow, stage volume. I only did three shows never being able to get a quality mix. They fired me after the third show. It was a blessing in disguise! It never felt right, and I was about tell them I quit. A year later I can now afford to hire help, and new gear. The gigs just keep pouring in at the rate where  I can pick and choose.
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2015, 02:05:28 pm »

As a sound man, your job is to provide the best possible sound for the audience at the prescribed sound level needed for that particular audience.  It's perfectly acceptable to have a conversation with a band that is creating too much stage volume to make that a reality.

I've done many a festival show where I was instructed to 'turn it down' since I mixed the sound to match the loudest instrument on the stage. Me turning it down simply messed up the mix without significantly reducing the total volume created, and then nobody is happy.  The key is to make sure this is communicated far in advance, and not half way through the event.

Anything you can do to reduce stage volume will generally help the overall show.  The smaller the venue, the more attention needs to be put on stage volume.  In an arena, you can blow up the stage and it's not much of a problem, but if you do the same thing in a coffee shop, the main PA is useless.  Sometimes that's hard for bands to understand.

The key to getting a band to cooperate is to have them trust your abilities. If they think you know what you are doing, they are far more likely to listen to your advice. If they have no respect for you, and won't adapt, then it's time to move on.

As far as a concern for your reputation, depending on your market, the impact for doing a particular show is minimal.  Odds of a high end client being at an event with a crappy band are fairly low.  Rarely will someone remember your company specifically from a show like that.  You might miss out on providing sound for another crappy band that has someone there, but it's not really going to matter much in the end.
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Brian Jojade

Stephen Kirby

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Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2015, 04:12:07 pm »

I know a few folks who carry around half stack Marshalls but have very quiet stage volumes.  So you need to see what goes on before jumping in with lectures about stage volume.  When I'm playing guitar someplace and some guy comes up and immediately tells me to put the amp sideways right next to my ear (in a venue large enough for bother with a house PA and soundperson) before I've ever played a note, Houston, we have a problem.

OTOH, if someone won't turn down (and lately it seems to be bass players with big booming tones that cause everyone else to turn up) then you mention on the break that if anyone comes up to them and says they can't hear the singing, that X is drowning everything out.  They can improve their show or not.  As people have mentioned, bar owners and staff have seen enough bands to know who is the problem.

In my muso world, there are first call folks who say that some gigs are worth it regardless of the pay, and there isn't enough money to make other gigs worth it.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2015, 04:29:06 pm »

Steve,
Stage volume is always a consideration, but like you it tends to bother me when stage volume is often singled out as the soul source of poor sound. My biggest gripe after stage volume is the lack of knowledge the majority of todays bands have concerning placement of the amplifiers and setup of the backline as a whole. That is followed closely by the need to reinforce every instrument in a room smaller than my basement and from a stage not large enough for all of the bands hardware to begin with. The stage volume may be wicked pissa (Boston for good) as is without reinforcement, so why add to the levels and complexity when all that's needed is vocal support and the added ambience of an open vocal mic. Always too much when not needed seems to be the way for club bands.
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BOSTON STRONG........
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Firing the Client Because They're Hard To Mix
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2015, 04:29:06 pm »


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