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Author Topic: GFCI cord end - acceptable cables  (Read 2552 times)

frank kayser

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GFCI cord end - acceptable cables
« on: November 20, 2015, 03:43:43 pm »

I was just delivered a Leviton 16693 GFCI device for installation on a cord end.
Instructions were basic (not wordless pictograms, but REAL english)
couple interesting things noted:
1) Not for cords over 50'
2) Twist strands tightly together. DO NOT TIN ENDS
3) Rainproof
4) Do not use extension cord to supply power to this device
5) Only the following types of UL approved cable
- SJTW
- SJOW
- SJTOW
- SJTOOW
- SJEOW
- STW
- STOW
- STOOW
-------------
My comments/questions
1) Am I the only one that uses cords over 50'?
2) DO NOT TIN ENDS - said many times here, to not tin stranded wires going to a pressure device.  Worth repeating.
3) Rainproof - That's a nice-to-have.
4) Do not use extension cords to power this device - Am I the only one using extension cords?
5) This is the one that has me shaking my head...
The list includes most of the common Service Junior 300v types - minus SJOOW and SJEOOW.
And omits our favorites 600v types SOOW and SEOOW.


The fact that it will accept STOOW further stumps me - according to this
http://solutions.borderstates.com/soow-seoow-and-stoow-what-is-the-difference
Quote from the noted site:
"STOOW cord has the same oil- and water-resistant features as SOOW and SEOOW, and you can use it in both indoor and outdoor applications. However, it has a thermoplastic jacket that is the least flexible of the three options and will deform under extreme heat or pressure. This type of SO cord should be used where it will have minimal exposure to chemicals, oil and extreme temperatures. STOOW is common in consumer applications, portable lights and power extensions."

Anybody out there using extension cords?
Any insight to the approved vs unmentioned wire types?
Maybe I'm just beating my head against the wall...


frank
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 06:57:23 pm by frank kayser »
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Rob Spence

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Re: GFCI cord end - acceptable cables
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2015, 04:52:14 pm »

My take is the product is aimed at general consumers.

The advice is good for consumers. Consumers don't use SO cords. They might use zip cord for extension cords.

I think you are over thinking this.


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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: GFCI cord end - acceptable cables
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2015, 07:29:13 pm »

5) This is the one that has me shaking my head...
The list includes most of the common Service Junior 300v types - minus SJOOW and SJEOOW.
And omits our favorites 600v types SOOW and SEOOW.


The fact that it will accept STOOW further stumps me - according to this
http://solutions.borderstates.com/soow-seoow-and-stoow-what-is-the-difference
Quote from the noted site:
"STOOW cord has the same oil- and water-resistant features as SOOW and SEOOW, and you can use it in both indoor and outdoor applications. However, it has a thermoplastic jacket that is the least flexible of the three options and will deform under extreme heat or pressure. This type of SO cord should be used where it will have minimal exposure to chemicals, oil and extreme temperatures. STOOW is common in consumer applications, portable lights and power extensions."

I wonder if it has to do with cable diameter? SOOW and SEOOW tends to be much thicker than the other types of comparable wire gauge. Perhaps the device cannot accommodate cables of a larger diameter. (Just guessing.)
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Lyle Williams

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Re: GFCI cord end - acceptable cables
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2015, 03:05:24 pm »

From a liability point of view if they don't define what is acceptable, anything might be considered acceptable.

On the extension cord side of things, the gfci only protects against downstream accidents.  Telling people not to have an upstrean extension cord encourages consumers to put the cord in the right place.

While it is amazingly common practice to link extension cords, in general regulations don't permit that.  So a product vendor can't suggest that you do it.  The fault current impedance gets too high when too many cords are linked together.

Here is an example from Australia, where an ordinary power circuit is 230V 10A:  At the hardware store I can buy 25m extension cords built with 1mm2 conductors.  They are well built, cheap, and 100% compliant with regs.  But the limit on 1mm2 wire at 10A is 25m, so no extension is legally possible.  If you want to run power 100m, getting four cheap extension cords can to a consumer seem like an OK way to do it, but in reality you need 4mm2 wires to go this distance so that the wire resistance doesn't get too high. 

Sorry about the non-US example, the same principles apply, I just don't know the specifics for your regs.
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frank kayser

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Re: GFCI cord end - acceptable cables
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 06:30:05 pm »

From a liability point of view if they don't define what is acceptable, anything might be considered acceptable.

On the extension cord side of things, the gfci only protects against downstream accidents.  Telling people not to have an upstrean extension cord encourages consumers to put the cord in the right place.

While it is amazingly common practice to link extension cords, in general regulations don't permit that.  So a product vendor can't suggest that you do it.  The fault current impedance gets too high when too many cords are linked together.

Here is an example from Australia, where an ordinary power circuit is 230V 10A:  At the hardware store I can buy 25m extension cords built with 1mm2 conductors.  They are well built, cheap, and 100% compliant with regs.  But the limit on 1mm2 wire at 10A is 25m, so no extension is legally possible.  If you want to run power 100m, getting four cheap extension cords can to a consumer seem like an OK way to do it, but in reality you need 4mm2 wires to go this distance so that the wire resistance doesn't get too high. 

Sorry about the non-US example, the same principles apply, I just don't know the specifics for your regs.
Thanks for your input, Lyle.  The Australian example is perfectly fine - As you said, same principles here and there.


What I wanted to do was to replace the damaged plug on my Furman 1215 and plug it up to the 85' 10/3 SEOOW running to the wall.
I know it seems I'm over thinking it, but when they're so specific about the cable types which exclude SOOW and SEOOW (which is arguable "better" than the SJxxx versions of the cable which they do list as acceptable), I have to wonder what I can ignore vs what i should ignore - i.e., extension cords, or using it on a cord over 50'.


Mostly, I found it an interesting set of somewhat contradictory points - some making more sense than others.
frank

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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: GFCI cord end - acceptable cables
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 07:04:53 pm »

I know it seems I'm over thinking it, but when they're so specific about the cable types which exclude SOOW and SEOOW (which is arguable "better" than the SJxxx versions of the cable which they do list as acceptable), I have to wonder what I can ignore vs what i should ignore - i.e., extension cords, or using it on a cord over 50'.

The copper is still the same....

Most likely, those are the cable types and installation methods that were tested for the UL listing. Perhaps they figured that the vast majority of use would be on those cable types, and they didn't want to go to the expense of testing cables that might be used on <1% of installations. It's a funny thing, UL listing sometimes only applies to certain, tested configurations.

I can think of no reason why functionality or safety would be impaired with using different cable types or connecting it to the female end of an extension cord that's in a well-maintained condition and properly protected from physical harm.

I think there's a fair amount of CYA going on here.
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Re: GFCI cord end - acceptable cables
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 07:04:53 pm »


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