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Author Topic: Combining power/signal in one wire idea  (Read 8337 times)

Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Combining power/signal in one wire idea
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2015, 05:35:44 pm »

Robotics often combine power and signal wires in small tough cables.  But cost is usually not an over riding concern.
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Steve Swaffer

Stephen Kirby

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Re: Combining power/signal in one wire idea
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2015, 07:12:46 pm »

Here's your hint:  it's mainly about 2 things:  dielectric strength of the individual conductor insulation on the AC mains side and the over all jacket that is still required over them; and the physical robustness properties of insulation, filler and outside jacket of the entire assembly.

That means to make it smaller will require more advanced (expensive) insulating materials.  Look to the aircraft industry - very little rubber or vinyl, mostly Teflon and similar materials.

Note that Teflon cold flows.  So any constant pressure will compromise the dielectric performance.  Kapton is probably the thinnest insulation available but is unfortunately hydroscopic.  Once it has absorbed moisture it's breakdown voltage is compromised significantly.  The fly by wire and much harnessing in the F16 was originally Kapton to save weight.  But they found that the moisture absorption from the constant washing of planes (the old military axiom of it it moves salute it, if it doesn't move, wash or paint it) was correlated with a breakdown in the flight controls inverting functions such that several pilots flew themselves into the ground before they stopped washing the planes all the time.  See also the Magellan space probe fire from Kapton breakdown.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Combining power/signal in one wire idea
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2015, 01:26:14 pm »

If you still want to experiment, check out these guys.  I have worked with them before-used to buy wire for specialized industrial applications.  (Used some of their control cable in place of so on tig welder foot pedals- almost indestructible by the guys in production.). Very good product, you can buy short lengths, good service-all of which comes at a price, but you won't pay as often.  They do custom work-though I have never presumed that with them.

I have no financial interest-just like their product.

http://www.tpcwire.com/

Fixed sorry!

« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 06:19:36 pm by Stephen Swaffer »
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Steve Swaffer

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Combining power/signal in one wire idea
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2015, 02:08:38 pm »

If you still want to experiment, check out these guys.  I have worked with them before-used to buy wire for specialized industrial applications.  (Used some of their control cable in place of so on tig welder foot pedals- almost indestructible by the guys in production.). Very good product, you can buy short lengths, good service-all of which comes at a price, but you won't pay as often.  They do custom work-though I have never presumed that with them.

I have no financial interest-just like their product.

Who are these masked men?  No linky....
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Combining power/signal in one wire idea
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2015, 12:35:14 am »

A lesson to take away from Kapton is that new technology may have new and unexpected failure modes.  If you don't gain a sufficient competitive advantage from being on the bleeding edge, don't be there.

Aluminium wiring on the A380 was another step too far.  It was meant to save something like 1000kg per aircraft and ended up saving about 80kg.  And it made the project years late.
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Re: Combining power/signal in one wire idea
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2015, 12:35:14 am »


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