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Author Topic: Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys  (Read 5322 times)

Callan Browne

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Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys
« on: November 03, 2015, 06:07:23 am »

Hi,
I normally use my PA for either my 5 piece band or duo (pop rock covers), but in a few weeks another band is going to come up after us and perform for about 45 mins using our PA, Drums & bass amp at a small street festival.
They are a 7 piece funk band, including Keys, a Trumpet and a Sax player.

I was wondering what this group might recommend for use as Mics on both the trumpet and sax.

We have available:
2 X SM58's
1 X Beta58 Wireless
3 X E835
1 X E935
1 X E945

From this list, I also need 3 vocal mics, in addition to the trumpet and sax.
I was thinking of using the 835's for the brass and the 3 Shure's on vocals, but open to ideas as I won't have a lot of time to try to many options.

Lastly I don't have a DI in my kit currently, so I'm looking to purchase one for the keys, but I want to get something that is flexible / suitable for both keys and acoustic guitar - (I often play acoustic and just go direct into the mixer, it's served me well so far)
I was thinking of buying a Radial JDI for this, but happy to hear any suggestions.

Cheers,
Callan
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2015, 08:40:20 am »

Check with the band to see what they want/need, but you can probably get away with a single SM-57 on a stand in front of the horns. No need to get crazy.

Do your research on the DI, but Radial anything is a great choice.
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Geoff Doane

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Re: Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2015, 09:31:01 am »

As Bob says, check with the band, but chances are, an SM58 will be familiar and will do the trick.

I've always been a bit spoiled in the horn mic department, with access to MD-421s and RE-20s, which have worked fine for me.  But one particular tenor player kept bugging me for a 58.  I relented on the last couple gigs, and gave him my go to snare mic, an SM58 with a Beta57 windscreen instead of the usual ball.  He loves it, and I have to admit, I can live with it too.  I find the 57/58 to be a bit jagged in the top end, but I'd rather have a happy horn player.  I still like the RE-20 for trumpet because its lack of proximity effect means it doesn't matter how close the horn is, it sounds the same.

If your acoustic guitar does not have an active pickup, you really want an active DI.  I've been very pleased with the Radial Pro48, in the $100 ballpark.  It sounds just like the twice-as-expensive J48, but omits some of the (troublesome) switches of the more expensive box.  The LED also stays on full time in the Pro48 to indicate that you have phantom power.  I picked up a stereo K-T active DI about a year ago (made in China by BearRinger), and it has worked out well too.  If you need two channels, it's a bit more cost effective than the Radials. 

The JDIs are great, but may have some limitations with very high impedance sources.  They also contain a transformer that costs almost $80 by itself, so they are going to cost roughly twice what the Pro48 (and ProDI) does.  For devices like keyboards, that are AC powered, I like having the security blanket of a real transformer providing isolation between the musician's rig and my console.  The fact that they drop the level 15 dB or so has never been a problem, and is often an advantage with hot outputs.

A number of other companies make DIs using the Jensen JT-DB-E transformer found in the JDI.  Whirlwind, Switchcraft, ProCo, and LPB come to mind, and there are likely others.  They will all sound the same.  Pick the form factor you like, and don't look back.  :)

GTD
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David Simpson

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Re: Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2015, 09:33:40 am »

I echo Bob's comments about advancing with the band to be certain of their needs. Perhaps they have mics and a DI to add to your list.

The SM58's would be ok for the horns. I would say use the 835's for vocals simply because you would have matching set. That is helpful for consistancy and with monitors. In reality, you could get away with the either on the horns.

Lots has been written here about DI's so be sure to do your homework. In general, you will probably want an active DI since you are looking to use it on acoustic guitar. Radial is great. I just got a few of their StageBug DI's, I love them as much as their bigger DI's. They come in at a very nice proice point and size too.

~Dave
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2015, 01:32:10 pm »

I would say use the 835's for vocals simply because you would have matching set. That is helpful for consistancy and with monitors. In reality, you could get away with the either on the horns.
+1  The Shures are a default but if you're mixing mics on vocals and only have one monitor mix, it will be easier to get it dialed in with one kind of mic.  Besides, I like the 835s unless you have a sharp soprano female vocalist.  Then the peak will cut a bit.  For an alto female they're fantastic.

For keyboard DIs the passive Radials are the way to go.  I have a stereo one I got for isolating laptops from dance troups but the two inputs are handy when someone has two keyboards and wants you to mix them (as opposed to keyboardists who manage their own rig and send you one signal).
An active or buffered DI will help with an acoustic guitar that has some sort of passive pick up like a soundhole or passive piezo.  The low end response is less important though compared to a bass or keyboard.  Acoustics get boomy and howl unless the low end is cut anyway.  I have a couple of ART active DIs that were cheap and sound fine.  I'll reserve the BSS for something important like the bass or a primary acoustic guitar in a quiet act where it's really critical to get as good a sound as possible.  For basic strumming, the ARTs are fine and have been totally reliable over the last 10 years.
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Callan Browne

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Re: Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2015, 07:57:22 pm »

Great, thanks all for the input.

I'm trying to get information out of the band as we speak, but at the same time trying to also get prepared myself in case they don't have to much experience.

This is what they have said so far
Quote
We’ll need 1x DI for keys, 1x DI for bass, and 2 horn mics (1x trumpet and 1x Sax)

If I need to lead the blind because I'm the guy with the PA, then I want to at least start with an idea of what might work.
Hoping for the best - planning for the worst.
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Steven Eudaly

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Re: Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2015, 08:14:53 pm »

Again, everything that's already been said is great advice. Using matching mics on the vocals is a plus. Radial DIs are sound great and are about as indestructible as they come. The little StageBug models are great for the price, and don't take up much space in the workbox.

In my opinion, if you've got the vox covered with the 835s, why not try the the 900s on the horns? Maybe 935 on the sax and the 945 on the trumpet.

While the 58s will work just fine for horns, and I've worked with several horn players that prefer them, the 900s are great mics and definitely look a little more "special" or impressive to the average musician which can go a long way to making them feel cool about the gig. I've thrown 840s on horns before when it was all I had to work with, and it worked just as good as a 58, if not better, so I'd like to hear what the 900s would do.

George Dougherty

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Re: Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2015, 10:28:25 pm »

In my opinion, if you've got the vox covered with the 835s, why not try the the 900s on the horns? Maybe 935 on the sax and the 945 on the trumpet.

While the 58s will work just fine for horns, and I've worked with several horn players that prefer them, the 900s are great mics and definitely look a little more "special" or impressive to the average musician which can go a long way to making them feel cool about the gig. I've thrown 840s on horns before when it was all I had to work with, and it worked just as good as a 58, if not better, so I'd like to hear what the 900s would do.
+1, given how similar the 935 and 904 response are, the 935 should do quite fine on horns.  I've put 904's up for a horn section before and they loved what they heard back through their wedges.
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2015, 05:23:13 am »

Hi,
I normally use my PA for either my 5 piece band or duo (pop rock covers), but in a few weeks another band is going to come up after us and perform for about 45 mins using our PA, Drums & bass amp at a small street festival.
They are a 7 piece funk band, including Keys, a Trumpet and a Sax player.

I was wondering what this group might recommend for use as Mics on both the trumpet and sax.

We have available:
2 X SM58's
1 X Beta58 Wireless
3 X E835
1 X E935
1 X E945

From this list, I also need 3 vocal mics, in addition to the trumpet and sax.
I was thinking of using the 835's for the brass and the 3 Shure's on vocals, but open to ideas as I won't have a lot of time to try to many options.

Lastly I don't have a DI in my kit currently, so I'm looking to purchase one for the keys, but I want to get something that is flexible / suitable for both keys and acoustic guitar - (I often play acoustic and just go direct into the mixer, it's served me well so far)
I was thinking of buying a Radial JDI for this, but happy to hear any suggestions.

Cheers,
Callan

58's (57's on trumpets if you have one,) are fine for Trumpet and Sax, however, I suspect the 835's will work ok too.  As for DI's, Radials are great, but for general Key's and acoustic guitar, the cheap Behringers DI 100's are just fine (sound's not a problem) and at $40 a shot you can afford to have 2-3 knocking around.  I've got 4 and they have never given me a problem, they will take a knock.  In the unlikely event one fail's they haven't cost you that much.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Mic for Trumpet/Sax / DI for Keys
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2015, 06:10:57 am »

he cheap Behringers DI 100's are just fine (sound's not a problem) and at $40 a shot you can afford to have 2-3 knocking around.  I've got 4 and they have never given me a problem, they will take a knock.  In the unlikely event one fail's they haven't cost you that much.

I know it's popular to not like Behringer, but I agree.  The D100s are fine.  I have a couple - although I usually use my own home made DIs first.


Steve.
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