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Author Topic: Sweetwater price drop  (Read 19672 times)

Scott Bolt

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2015, 08:37:31 pm »

I think that at this point in time, a fully functional app that operates on both iPad and Android and that doesn't have any connection issues is considered the base line, not a "long awaited improvement".

Soundcraft has been behind the curve with respect to the support apps since launch.  For those that don't use these apps, the Impact is an excellent choice.

Hopefully they catch up as Bob suggests they will.

The built in 32 x 32 USB recording interface along with the LCD scribble strips really brought the console up to snuff with the X32 IMO.  The support apps would be the next step, but all of this has been a long time coming.

One has to wonder if there is an X32 rev B nearing completion at this point in time.  Then again, perhaps not.  If it were me, I would wait until the next generation of SHARC processors were introduced to get at least a 2-4 fold increase in processing.

It is truly amazing the quality and features that can be had for the price today.  We really are living in a great time to be in live sound.

Not sure about the rest of you, but I don't miss my big folded horns, amp racks and huge and heavy mixer rig at all ... not to mention my analog snake ;)
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2015, 03:39:05 am »

Not sure about the rest of you, but I don't miss my big folded horns, amp racks and huge and heavy mixer rig at all ... not to mention my analog snake


It is certainly nice to have all options.  I was using an A & H ML3300 a few months ago with a stack of heavy point source cabs (not horns), outboard and amp racks.


I think analogue is more fun... until it's time to put it in the truck!




Steve.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2015, 09:23:11 am »

I think that at this point in time, a fully functional app that operates on both iPad and Android and that doesn't have any connection issues is considered the base line, not a "long awaited improvement".


I agree, but I also disagree. Keep in mind that ViSi is an app designed to compliment and work with a very large number of dissimilar systems, the Vi line and the Si line. While all of these share the same lineage, features are not the same or even close in some cases. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complaining about connectivity to a Vi series desk (or Studer for that matter), but sharing the lineage does not mean sharing all of the components or practices used to design or build the children.

In Soundcrafts case they are using components from their higher end boards throughout the Si series, however, the implementation (according to my mole at Soundcraft) for the WIFI and associated protocol is new to the Si series. This is compounded by the need to work flawlessly with option cards utilizing a dissimilar protocol, or in layman's terms, you need an interpreter between the network and every card that speaks a different language.

Add to that the fact the system must be kept secure from external users, and now the addition of ViSi listen with it's ability to allow secure monitor mixes and channel control for dozens of people remotely, and you have a more complex solution  than most.

If you've not seen the last revision of their app, look here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-248Wv-hcz0

I can wait, I have faith in Soundcraft.
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richard_cooper

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2015, 11:14:35 am »

I agree, but I also disagree. Keep in mind that ViSi is an app designed to compliment and work with a very large number of dissimilar systems, the Vi line and the Si line. While all of these share the same lineage, features are not the same or even close in some cases. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complaining about connectivity to a Vi series desk (or Studer for that matter), but sharing the lineage does not mean sharing all of the components or practices used to design or build the children.

.......

I can wait, I have faith in Soundcraft.

Which is all well and good, others have had this stuff working for a while, the reasons shouldn't matter to an end user. It seems a tiny bit odd to need to have only one iPad app for all the different boards, when the off line editors are released on a one per board range basis (i.e VI1-6, 3000-7000, expression, performer, impact, etc. all seperate apps.). These apps are also a downside to me. The Impact OLE is nearly unusable for me as the legends on the desk buttons and controls are unreadable on a 22" 1080 screen without zooming in which is slow and extremely clunky. There is no option (at least on the SI desks) to use them as remote to the desks, so no option for hard wired remote control software. The X32 & TFs have this, plus Mac versions.

Whilst someone asked, a big area for me that the Impact lacks as compared to the X32s is a comprehensive MIDI or OSC implementation. The X32 has most bases covered, the Impact has none as far as I can see. The other SI's have nothing more than scene recall/send on recall. Not that I'd choose either for the sort of things I'd need this, but it is a difference.



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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2015, 11:18:07 am »

I agree, but I also disagree. Keep in mind that ViSi is an app designed to compliment and work with a very large number of dissimilar systems, the Vi line and the Si line. While all of these share the same lineage, features are not the same or even close in some cases. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complaining about connectivity to a Vi series desk (or Studer for that matter), but sharing the lineage does not mean sharing all of the components or practices used to design or build the children.

In Soundcrafts case they are using components from their higher end boards throughout the Si series, however, the implementation (according to my mole at Soundcraft) for the WIFI and associated protocol is new to the Si series. This is compounded by the need to work flawlessly with option cards utilizing a dissimilar protocol, or in layman's terms, you need an interpreter between the network and every card that speaks a different language.

Add to that the fact the system must be kept secure from external users, and now the addition of ViSi listen with it's ability to allow secure monitor mixes and channel control for dozens of people remotely, and you have a more complex solution  than most.

If you've not seen the last revision of their app, look here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-248Wv-hcz0

I can wait, I have faith in Soundcraft.

I agree. Sound craft is coming out with some nice gear. Now to see a Ui system with a higher channel count....   https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_EX_cO1wxJs

Douglas R. Allen
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Dave Pluke

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2015, 06:48:44 pm »


I think analogue is more fun... until it's time to put it in the truck!

I agree with you, Steve!

Dave

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Scott Bolt

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2015, 07:51:17 pm »


It is certainly nice to have all options.  I was using an A & H ML3300 a few months ago with a stack of heavy point source cabs (not horns), outboard and amp racks.


I think analogue is more fun... until it's time to put it in the truck!




Steve.

... and God forbid you play a club where the act is up stairs  :o
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2015, 01:35:37 am »

... and God forbid you play a club where the act is up stairs  :o


There is a venue here where the load in is via cast iron stairs on the outside of the building. My friend's all analogue rig is used in there.  Luckily, he gets my son and a couple of his friends to do the heavy lifting.




Steve.
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Loren Aguey

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2015, 04:10:45 pm »

I mixed on an X32 two weeks ago for the first time and wasn't impressed at all. OK sound quality and ridiculous routing. At least I figured out why people like them more than the Soundcraft boards. Grainy sound, and plenty of lights.

Ok, I'm not a fanboy of the X32 and as I've stated on other threads I've had lots of reliability issues with them, to the point where I would not buy one with my own or someone else's money.

Two issues I definitely do not have with it, is UI and sound quality. They're both great. What exactly is so ridiculous about the routing?? Grainy sound?? I'm at a loss as to what would make you use that word to describe it. It sounds good and has nice sounding FX. As does the Soundcraft.

Yes the one button sends on fader on the Soundcraft is nice and easy, but with the exception of user defined keys, most of the big boy desks have at least 2 button pushes to get to sends on fader. And if mixing monitors is quick is a priority, the ability of the X32 to select an input in sends on fader mode and have all your mix sends for that input on a fader, is way faster than switching layers for every mix. Ie. "who needs keys in their mix? Everyone?" Bring up up to 8 faders and there 'ya go. Perfect for quick line checks.

The Soundcraft is fine, I'm not the biggest fan of their cheaper digital desks but I also don't have any real beef with them. You've proven yourself an avid fan of Soundcraft and they deserve it. Behringer has also earned their reputation for lack of reliability, so I absolutely understand your preference towards the former in general. But let's be real, the X32 does not sound "grainy", and its routing that you have described as ridiculous, is every bit as flexible and fast as the Soundcraft. I would argue that soft patching outputs is considerably faster on the X32.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2015, 05:49:48 pm »

Loren,
Beauty is in the eye's of the beholder, but in this case the beauty will be in the educated ears of the beholder. I am no more a "fan boy" of the Harman Soundcraft boards, up to and including the Vi and Studer line, than I am of any other well built, reliable, and good sounding board. Had you been around this site a few years back you may remember the discussions held concerning the onset of the digital era, an era when most of us were using analog boards of every quality and description. My own board at the time was an APB, however, I was working with many other boards from such manufacturers as Midas, Toft, Soundcraft, and yes, Mackie and Behringer and other low end boards of the day, if that's what I was given to use.

Moving to the digital world was, unlike today, not a trivial matter for most of us here, and entry level for a decent good sounding board meant spending $5-10K. I procrastinated and spent almost two (2) years researching digital boards of all types and descriptions, and yes, when the X32 was announced I arranged for a comparative listening test, in a controlled environment, and using the same SRX system and DBX 260/480/4800 processors to compare an LS9, X32, Si Compact, against the APB. Hands down the Soundcraft had the best sound of all those boards, and that really can't be debated.

What do I call grainy? A sound that has no life that appears to be on the brink of distortion ALL the time. Push the X32 hard and this is the sound you get whether you want to believe or admit it to yourself. You can hear it. Lifeless, no dimension, almost as good as an LS9. And let's not start that designed by Midas crap. They may have had some influence but you can bet a paycheck that design was well done before Midas even came to the MG.

I spent a night recently working an X32 in a very large theatre and what I found during my search is what I found then. I stand by my statements.

Routing? X32 routing is a multipage joke of convoluted steps as compared to any of the Soundcraft Vi or Si consoles, see for yourself.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 05:51:59 pm by Bob Leonard »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2015, 05:49:48 pm »


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