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Author Topic: Sweetwater price drop  (Read 19267 times)

Jamin Lynch

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #50 on: November 12, 2015, 09:08:07 pm »

Loren,
Beauty is in the eye's of the beholder, but in this case the beauty will be in the educated ears of the beholder. I am no more a "fan boy" of the Harman Soundcraft boards, up to and including the Vi and Studer line, than I am of any other well built, reliable, and good sounding board. Had you been around this site a few years back you may remember the discussions held concerning the onset of the digital era, an era when most of us were using analog boards of every quality and description. My own board at the time was an APB, however, I was working with many other boards from such manufacturers as Midas, Toft, Soundcraft, and yes, Mackie and Behringer and other low end boards of the day, if that's what I was given to use.

Moving to the digital world was, unlike today, not a trivial matter for most of us here, and entry level for a decent good sounding board meant spending $5-10K. I procrastinated and spent almost two (2) years researching digital boards of all types and descriptions, and yes, when the X32 was announced I arranged for a comparative listening test, in a controlled environment, and using the same SRX system and DBX 260/480/4800 processors to compare an LS9, X32, Si Compact, against the APB. Hands down the Soundcraft had the best sound of all those boards, and that really can't be debated.

What do I call grainy? A sound that has no life that appears to be on the brink of distortion ALL the time. Push the X32 hard and this is the sound you get whether you want to believe or admit it to yourself. You can hear it. Lifeless, no dimension, almost as good as an LS9. And let's not start that designed by Midas crap. They may have had some influence but you can bet a paycheck that design was well done before Midas even came to the MG.

I spent a night recently working an X32 in a very large theatre and what I found during my search is what I found then. I stand by my statements.

Routing? X32 routing is a multipage joke of convoluted steps as compared to any of the Soundcraft Vi or Si consoles, see for yourself.

Bravo
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Loren Aguey

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #51 on: November 12, 2015, 09:34:43 pm »

Loren,
Beauty is in the eye's of the beholder, but in this case the beauty will be in the educated ears of the beholder. I am no more a "fan boy" of the Harman Soundcraft boards, up to and including the Vi and Studer line, than I am of any other well built, reliable, and good sounding board. Had you been around this site a few years back you may remember the discussions held concerning the onset of the digital era, an era when most of us were using analog boards of every quality and description. My own board at the time was an APB, however, I was working with many other boards from such manufacturers as Midas, Toft, Soundcraft, and yes, Mackie and Behringer and other low end boards of the day, if that's what I was given to use.

Moving to the digital world was, unlike today, not a trivial matter for most of us here, and entry level for a decent good sounding board meant spending $5-10K. I procrastinated and spent almost two (2) years researching digital boards of all types and descriptions, and yes, when the X32 was announced I arranged for a comparative listening test, in a controlled environment, and using the same SRX system and DBX 260/480/4800 processors to compare an LS9, X32, Si Compact, against the APB. Hands down the Soundcraft had the best sound of all those boards, and that really can't be debated.

What do I call grainy? A sound that has no life that appears to be on the brink of distortion ALL the time. Push the X32 hard and this is the sound you get whether you want to believe or admit it to yourself. You can hear it. Lifeless, no dimension, almost as good as an LS9. And let's not start that designed by Midas crap. They may have had some influence but you can bet a paycheck that design was well done before Midas even came to the MG.

I spent a night recently working an X32 in a very large theatre and what I found during my search is what I found then. I stand by my statements.

Routing? X32 routing is a multipage joke of convoluted steps as compared to any of the Soundcraft Vi or Si consoles, see for yourself.

Bob,

A couple things--You've been around the block a lot longer than I have, no denying that. That being said I have been on this forum close to 10 years now, I'm not a newb. Since they updated the forum software I can't say exactly how long but the point is I absolutely remember you consistently singing praises for your APB for its sound and functionality, and I remember you going through the decision process of going digital and being hesitant to do so because of the sound quality you believed you'd be losing.

2nd, I use both consoles on a fairly regular basis, in addition to larger format desks, and I'm well aware how the routing works on both. I'm not sure what posting screen shots proves. The fact that you have to post 3 of the Soundcraft and only one of the X32 says something to me, seeing as everything you need to do to make the soft patch is on one page on the X32. But it doesn't matter--you don't like the X32 and I'm certainly not gonna lose any sleep over it. I just get irked when people state an opinion as fact. Besides, I'm of the opinion that nothing beats the grid style routing of Avid desks or Yamaha via studio manager. There's nothing faster than that especially in a festival situation where I have to match a guest engineers show file inputs to our patch. As far as I'm concerned, that should be how every console handles patching. But I digress...

Perhaps your golden ears are more golden than mine but I don't hear anything resembling distortion out of the desk. And I don't think you're gonna find too many people who agree that the LS9 sounds better than the X32, but again, it doesn't matter. The last thing I'm interested in is having a wank convo about which console sounds better when the PA/Mics/input source quality is infinitely more important to me.

Enjoy your day, and enjoy whichever tools you choose to use to make you more effective at what we do, and I'll do the same.

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Ken Braziel

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2015, 09:48:44 pm »

Totally with you Bob, I've done one mix on an X32 Compact at a club, at the last minute the band asked for a board-feed into their portable recorder. Couldn't do it without re-setting the outputs for all the monitors (according to the house engineer) - that astonished me. I was glad the house guy knew the workflow so well, had him set up the monitor mixes for me & just mixed the show.

I absolutely love how quick & easy it is to set up routing and work-space on the Si series. I often mix side-stage with a compact stage-box by the drums, it's very quick to re-assign channels to inputs as needed.

I haven't done as extensive a comparison on the sound as you have, but when you reference the LS9 I shudder - I mix on those occasionally at a club, and it's astonishing to me that the preamp sound is considered pro-quality after working so much with the Si consoles! The extra headroom beyond the red-line on the Soundcraft boards feels very similar to mixing on their analog consoles, which I do several times a year for a local company that is still all analog.
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Loren Aguey

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2015, 09:53:17 pm »

Totally with you Bob, I've done one mix on an X32 Compact at a club, at the last minute the band asked for a board-feed into their portable recorder. Couldn't do it without re-setting the outputs for all the monitors (according to the house engineer) - that astonished me. I was glad the house guy knew the workflow so well, had him set up the monitor mixes for me & just mixed the show.

The ironic thing about you being glad he knew the workflow so well, is that clearly he knows very little about the desk if he's under the impression you have to re set all the monitor outputs just to setup a record feed. That is ridiculous, and of course not true.
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2015, 10:15:00 pm »

(snip)... to mixing on their analog consoles, which I do several times a year for a local company that is still all analog.

I find it astonishing that there is still a decent sized company that hasn't purchased *ANY* digital boards yet. I mean, really- yes you CAN rock out the large format analog, but have they had absolutely no rider come across their desk that only has digital on it?

Off topic, I know, sorry.

On topic, I do know at least one local person (whom I respect highly) that prefers the LS9 sound over an X32, and he's got a couple of each. And an M7. And an SD9.

-Ray
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2015, 10:34:15 pm »

My perfect world would be a digital APB with the workflow of the Soundcraft Si. Of course, there are 100 better desks out there, but I'll limit the discussion to something under $10K.
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Ken Braziel

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2015, 10:43:31 pm »

The ironic thing about you being glad he knew the workflow so well, is that clearly he knows very little about the desk if he's under the impression you have to re set all the monitor outputs just to setup a record feed. That is ridiculous, and of course not true.

Not knowing the board well myself, I just had to trust him when he said he'd been through this before.
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Ken Braziel

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2015, 11:01:29 pm »

I find it astonishing that there is still a decent sized company that hasn't purchased *ANY* digital boards yet. I mean, really- yes you CAN rock out the large format analog, but have they had absolutely no rider come across their desk that only has digital on it?

-Ray

The guy I speak of is a one-man company that's been at it for 30 years, he has a good number of regular gigs a year (several small festivals, lots of winery gigs since in NorCal that's where the $ is at) that either don't know any better or prefer the analog (he has all passive Meyer mains & monitors, I refer to him as a "boutique" sound company). Once or twice a year he'll do a festival gig where someone requires a digital console they're not carrying, he rents them from other companies as needed. He subs out to my company several times a year now, which means Si boards and QSC K-series all around, so he's not against digital, just hasn't made the plunge (and probably never will)

So, he's small & successful, but probably not quite a "decent" size - no line-arrays in his collection either  ;)
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2015, 11:47:10 pm »

That's a pretty good position to be in- where you have a bunch of regular gigs and you are happy with that. And if there's not going to be enough use to pay for one (I had in mind a major company!), then doesn't make sense to pull the trigger on it.

Same deal with not having a line array- he's got some good boxes, sounds like, and that works. I wouldn't do a LA either if not for my clients and venues that require it. Happy to take their money, ya know?!? :)

-Ray
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2015, 12:55:14 am »

Totally with you Bob, I've done one mix on an X32 Compact at a club, at the last minute the band asked for a board-feed into their portable recorder. Couldn't do it without re-setting the outputs for all the monitors (according to the house engineer) - that astonished me. I was glad the house guy knew the workflow so well, had him set up the monitor mixes for me & just mixed the show.

I absolutely love how quick & easy it is to set up routing and work-space on the Si series. I often mix side-stage with a compact stage-box by the drums, it's very quick to re-assign channels to inputs as needed.

I haven't done as extensive a comparison on the sound as you have, but when you reference the LS9 I shudder - I mix on those occasionally at a club, and it's astonishing to me that the preamp sound is considered pro-quality after working so much with the Si consoles! The extra headroom beyond the red-line on the Soundcraft boards feels very similar to mixing on their analog consoles, which I do several times a year for a local company that is still all analog.

If you have a red light ANY FUCKING PLACE on a digital mixer you need to TURN THAT SHIT DOWN.  Seriously, that's the equal of +22dBu on an analog desk.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 12:58:51 am by Tim McCulloch »
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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2015, 12:55:14 am »


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