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Author Topic: Sweetwater price drop  (Read 18919 times)

Tom Burgess

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2015, 04:23:28 pm »

The board looks great and appears like the obvious choice to me.  Can someone tell me why I should buy another Expression to replace my stolen one instead of the Impact?
The only reason I can think of is if you need more than 40 channels to mix, counting the 4 stereo effects as 8 of the 40.  The Impact will not produce more than 40 channels, period.  If you can live with that, it's a way cool console for the money.
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If the band sounds great, it's because the band IS great, if the band sound like crap, it's the soundman's fault.

Opinions expressed by me on this forum are my own and not necessarily those of the company for which I work.

Steve M Smith

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2015, 04:51:31 pm »

I do much prefer the PEQ physical setup on the Soundcraft mixers to that on the X32.  I really think Behringer should have bit the bullet and put a few more knobs on the unit for that purpose myself.

That's my opinion too.  I think the Soundcraft's EQ with everything available at once is far better than the Behringer's which needs a button press for each of the four bands.

But in the X32's defence, I do like the four auxiliary send controls which are active with a channel select, allowing you to adjust monitor mixes without activating sends on faders,


Steve.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2015, 06:22:07 pm »

That's my opinion too.  I think the Soundcraft's EQ with everything available at once is far better than the Behringer's which needs a button press for each of the four bands.

But in the X32's defence, I do like the four auxiliary send controls which are active with a channel select, allowing you to adjust monitor mixes without activating sends on faders,


Steve.

Steve,
Adjusting a monitor mix on the Si is a one button push once you've created the mix. Push the mix button and control all the levels, EQ, etc. using the mix faders. Simple.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2015, 03:49:58 am »

Steve,
Adjusting a monitor mix on the Si is a one button push once you've created the mix. Push the mix button and control all the levels, EQ, etc. using the mix faders. Simple.


I know.  I have done it.  I thought I should just include a plus point about the X32 for the sake of fairness after denigrating their EQ layout!


Having used both, I would choose the SI over an X32, but that's not to say that the X32 is bad. It is a lot of mixer for the money, as are the Soundcrafts and for that matter, the Allen and Heath Qu series.

It is quite amazing what can be achieved now in one box for relatively little money compared with what we would have to use and spend to get the same functionality not too many years ago.


Steve.
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Nils Erickson

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2015, 05:19:55 am »

I have both Si Expression 1+3 consoles, an X32 compact, an M32 and M32r, and an XAir.  To me, I am happy with the sound quality on all of them. Honestly.  If you can't get a decent sounding mix happening on them, the problem lies elsewhere.  Operationally is where they really differ and shine in various applications. 
For instance, I have an SI Expression 1 in my band's IEM rig.  We mix our own ears from stage and it is super easy for the non-technical people in my band to press their mix button and make simple adjustments to their mixes- it really could not be easier and it is more simple than the x32 for sure.  I don't care that the iphone app isn't done, I don't want us pulling out phones on stage while we play anyway.  The console sounds really good, and is very easy to use. 
However, the ipad app is a long way from good; I would call it functional at best.  It is missing critical things: mute group control; effect editing; tap tempo; an easy way to get from fader one to fader 50; faders don't align with custom layouts you make on the desk.  Because of these problems, I would take the functionality of the Midas or Behringer when mixing side stage.  Any day.  To me, the window is gone for making this any good.  I have moved on.  If it is not ready now, the console will be gone before it is ready.
Another great benefit of the soundcraft is the processing- having graphic eq and parametric eq on every mix without giving up other effect engines is awesome. Also, the desk has tons of inputs with the stage box.  And the custom layers are cool (except where the ipad is concerned).  And faderglow is helpful.  Visibility in daylight sucks, but that is true on the others as well.  I won't likely get another soundcraft however, despite the many things I like about it.  This is because of the failure to get the app flushed out and the stream of broken promises and timelines.
But... the midas/behringer completely win if you are mixing sidestage with a tablet.  The application is so full featured and stable; I am actually finding it easier to mix on the tablet than the console which I never thought would happen.  I don't want to have to run back to the console at the end of a song to hit a mute group or tap a tempo.  And the Midas/Behringer win for making it easy to connect multiple consoles and stage boxes for a main/monitor console, in my opinion. Connectivity with the ipad is easier too- it doesn't care in what order you turn things on, for instance.
Anyway, I rarely chime in on these threads as every one of these desks has ardent supporters.  For good reason too, they are all pretty nice.  I am not completely happy with any of them, but they all do a good job for my work and all of them have been upgrades to what I have owned in the past.  Importantly, each of them has had good ROI and have been mostly reliable.  They have helped build my business and have been worthwhile tools.

Blah Blah Blah, as a good friend of mine would say about this.  And now that we have completely digressed from Bob's original comment, I'll bring it back:  "Wow, what a good deal, it costs less than it once did."  Woot!

Cheers,
Nils
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2015, 12:57:19 pm »

Nils,
I doubt it will change your opinion of the Soundcraft app, but the root cause for connectivity failures and the reduced effort to continue with and release enhancements has been due to issues with the WiFi protocol. Every day we hear about people, regardless of the board and manufacturer, who lose connectivity or suffer from lockups when mixing remotely.

Soundcraft has taken the stance that they will not release updates to the app until they have proven reliable connectivity can be achieved 100% of the time. It now appears that they have resolved the issues with the WiFi protocol and connectivity, and knowing this is no small achievement I applaud their efforts.

It also appears that the latest release of the of the console firmware is close at hand, and that the ViSi listen feature is forthcoming as well. The listen feature, for those not aware, will be cross platform (Android/iOS), and will allow large numbers of individual protected monitor adjustments to be made by individuals mixing or running the app.

The last firmware release brought some really nice features to all of the Si boards (see below) and that trend continues. And once again, Soundcraft has made the effort to insure those features will work. Code only matures with age if the company and developers behind that code are dedicated to that effort, and IMO Soundcraft is, by deferring their release, showing their dedication. Below is the latest Facebook entry from Soundcraft;

**************************************************************************************
"
Hi All,

Sean here. A lot of you have been asking for an update on ViSi Listen. As you guys (rightly) point-out, we were meant to release it a couple months ago. Here's where we stand:

The ViSi Listen app is complete (just going to change some graphics and improve the Ui a bit). but as we tested ViSi Listen with the Si consoles, especially multiple instances of ViSi Listen (5+), we found some weaknesses in our network/HiQnet connectivity.


In fact, some of you might be experiencing issues with ViSi remote thanks to these weaknesses as well, symptoms including 1) ViSi losing connection 2) ViSi not being able to find your Si console 3) Si console freezing due to network errors.

The good news is, we have gotten to the bottom of this and are fixing the console firmware now. This will drastically improve current ViSi connectivity and will allow us to resume the console firmware work needed for ViSi Listen.

I don't have exact dates you guys but we are confident that it should be smooth-sailing now and we just have to crack-on and get the work done. This will result in new firmware very soon for Si to improve ViSi connectivity then will follow with ViSi Listen, our cross-platform (Android/iOS) and cross-device monitoring app, and new console firmware to support ViSi Listen by being able to control the access of ViSi Listen clients."

And here is the upgrades from the last firmware release. Note the insert count increase and independent BUS panning;

##########################################################

            About Si Expression V1.7 build 7

##########################################################

New Features:

   • Master Fader-Monitor Level Swap added to monitor window
   • Pre-dynamics send point added to Per-Channel-Per-Bus pickoff selection
   • Global FX Send Masters channel/bus type added
   • Insert count increase from 4 to 22
   • Alt+Mix (n) brings bus contribution levels onto Global Encoders
   • Mute group override: unmute channels in a Mute Group
   • "Solo Auto Cancel" mode added to solo preferences
   • New contribution pan mode field under "Bus Sends" on output window with three options: 1) Independent Bus Panning 2) Bus Follows Channel Panning 3) Bus Inverts Channel Panning
   • Channel strip pan encoder controls bus panning when in bus contribution mode
   • "Touch & turn" control of Lexicon parameters
   • "Auto Bus Master select" added to preferences

Bug Fixes:

   Lexicon FX parameters recalled from bootup
   Stereo input channel to stereo bus mix fix

***************************************************************************************

Good luck to all, and have a fun day,
BL
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 01:03:44 pm by Bob Leonard »
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BOSTON STRONG........
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I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

John L Nobile

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2015, 01:42:00 pm »

The price of this generation of soundboards is very inexpensive considering the quality and features available with all the manufacturers. IMO, they're all very capable and choice becomes a matter of taste or previous experience.

Now what piques my interest is what the next generation will bring in features, sound and pricing. I can't wait but the time frame between newer digital equipment is very short. Seems like every 6 months brings out the latest, greatest phone that make the previous ones seem almost obsolete.
It's a great time to be in the sound business but where was all this stuff when I was a kid?
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2015, 02:38:45 pm »

Good point John. Keep in mind that the next generation of boards will be built upon todays foundation. Get it together now and you'll have a step up when the next change occurs. Presonus is a fine example. Their initial decision to not include motorized faders quickly resulted in their fall from grace. Combine that with their industry leading failure rate and poor support structure (IMO) will lead to fewer and fewer board sales as time passes. Their current catch up solution costs twice what a Soundcraft, A&H, or Behringer board now costs. Why? Because more sales lowers price. Again, the company with the best foundation, and I believe that to be Soundcraft, will eventually have the best offerings.
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BOSTON STRONG........
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I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

John L Nobile

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2015, 03:24:33 pm »

Been a Soundcraft fan and user since day 1. Still miss my 8000. I've used the performer quite a few times and loved it. However, after putting most of my budget into speakers, I went with the M32. It wasn't available in time so I settled for the X32. I'm happy with it but in a year or 2, I'll trade up. Might be a Soundcraft then.

My thinking is that a cheap board through great speakers will sound better than a great board through cheap speakers.
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Ken Braziel

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Re: Sweetwater price drop
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2015, 04:36:33 pm »

Thanks for the info about the update Bob, I spent all summer mixing side-stage with a Performer3 and did a couple of shows (small stage at festivals) with the Performer1 - never had any issues with drop-outs or lack of connectivity or freeze-ups. I always mix using bus 9-14 as Groups, so mixing FOH on the ipad works OK for me - just wish the app had faster response when going to the Meter Bridge and selecting a group of faders - as often as not I find myself running back to the mixer to make adjustments.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Sweetwater price drop
ยซ Reply #39 on: November 07, 2015, 04:36:33 pm ยป


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