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[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Thanks, will look for those. But by "you may not feel need for more" you're not saying these will cover on outdoor festival for, say 2,000 people, are you? I don't want to pile up tons of tiny cabs that are not designed for big jobs... done that already...

Most SPL per cubic foot for a sub is probably the Danley TH-118. One TH-118 equals 4 or so typical single 18" reflex subs. They are small enough to be used for van gig shows, too. They are going to be more expensive than used Yorkville gear, though.

[Stan Chigintsev]

Most SPL per cubic foot for a sub is probably the Danley TH-118. One TH-118 equals 4 or so typical single 18" reflex subs. They are small enough to be used for van gig shows, too. They are going to be more expensive than used Yorkville gear, though.

Yes, I've researched those. They are amazing but very expensive.  My research shows that JTR Orbit Shifters are of very similar SPL and performance in general but cheaper. But still, that's $1800. I wonder if two or three LS1208s can compare with one JTR Orbit Shifter.

[Rick Powell]

Yes, I've researched those. They are amazing but very expensive.  My research shows that JTR Orbit Shifters are of very similar SPL and performance in general but cheaper. But still, that's $1800. I wonder if two or three LS1208s can compare with one JTR Orbit Shifter.

I don't know the LS1208s very well.  But I do know that four center clustered Orbit Shifters, properly powered, will produce enough low end for most outdoor events where the audience is in a 200' by 200' or so space.  Using them with the SLS960 you'd be crossing them higher than you'd like, but you'd still be able to make a bunch of noise with them.  If you are pressed for money and have access to a wood shop, you could probably make four DIY cabinets like Art Welter's Keystone Sub, the diyaudio TH18, or something along those lines for $1000 apiece or less. 

[Stephen Kirby]

Thanks, will look for those. But by "you may not feel need for more" you're not saying these will cover on outdoor festival for, say 2,000 people, are you? I don't want to pile up tons of tiny cabs that are not designed for big jobs... done that already...

I've done outdoor municipal type events with the pair of DSRs.  Not terribly loud.  Low to mid 90s 150 feet back.  100' by maybe 250' audience area.  And they weren't breathing hard.  Picked up a whole summer series next year as it's the first time they've been able to clearly hear vocals compared to the piles o' cabinets people have brought in before.  I'm guessing they could get into the upper 90s pretty solidly.  Not a 105+ festival rock concert but shocks people with how much they put out.  I'm going to have to put together another pair of subs to keep up though.  Probably another pair of Cubos but possibly something a bit bigger like the diy TH18 or Keystone.
To get any louder would take more than I want to move and getting into much more expensive gear.

[Goerge Thomas]

Let me just throw this out there.

You are talking about two different rigs for two different purposes. At least you SHOULD be in my mind....

I've had 4 of the SLS960 boxes and 6 of the LS1208s.

You NEVER ever stack the 1208s. You center cluster them. If you can't do that then you need to rethink things. Just my 2 cents.

If you center cluster the 1208s and power them properly then with 4 960s and 4 mid bass boxes of your choice. 1500 people is doable but not at Metallica levels. It will be clean and great bang for buck. The 960s without mid bass boxes lack a little bit but still kick ass in terms of clarity. You also NEED a good DSP on them... don't try to dial them in with a 31 band EQ and call it a day.

So you are talking an absolute ton of weight and space in gear. 4 SLS 960. 2-4 mid bass boxes of your choice. 4-6 LS1208. 6-8 Amps. and scaffolding for the 960s so you can center cluster your subs. Holy shizzah now you are talking a 6X12 trailer just for FOH when you throw in some monitors.  Not to mention the weight.

My advice. That setup would kick ass for larger shows. It's a waste of everything. EVERYTHING trying to downsize it for smaller shows under 350 people.

Buy once. Buy right. Good deals come and go.... more will come up... consider the STX and consider going powered if possible... the 960s are great for installs, the 980s are even better... if you are going to road warrior this gear I would stick with the 920s that are the magical box in the series with size/versus output/versus sensitivity. I would run 4 SLS 920s off two RMX 1450s and rip peoples heads off without trying with a good midbass box. 2 per side of those on stands with 2 LS1208s in the center was my go to kickass small-midsize 0-750 person setup for a long time.

Think. Save.

[Jonathan Betts]

Why not stack the 1208's? Wouldn't it be more of a PITA to align the tops/low mids  to a center cluster sub configuration?

[Goerge Thomas]

Why not stack the 1208's? Wouldn't it be more of a PITA to align the tops/low mids  to a center cluster sub configuration?

I'll let you try to muscle them around and then ask that question again. I'm a 1 man show. It doesn't take much to align them and you should already have a capable dsp with those 960s...

Center cluster them all day every day. I tried 3 a side and it just didn't work well for me when 6 in the middle always kicked ass.

[Mac Kerr]

It doesn't take much to align them and you should already have a capable dsp with those 960s...

Align them with what? if you think you have them aligned with the mains while center clustered try a different measurement location. You cannot time/phase align speaker systems that are located close to each other except for a limited location. Move around the audience and the alignment changes. To have the alignment work over a wide area the 2 systems must be located near each other physically.

Mac

[Stan Chigintsev]

Well, I can try to center cluster them, and I can try to stack them and see what works better.  For clustering situation we were going to make some custom flyware for SLS960s and that would be something I would deal with once I get the cabs. So far I'm not sure how I would do that...  anyway, I know people have done it.

Do people sell good custom DIY subs? Can they compare with Danley TH118 of JTR Orbit Shifter? Where can I find them? Can they cost less than $1700 per box? Because that's the price of a single passive Orbit Shifter. I don't have the skills to make a diy cab myself.  I love the idea of 2 subs vs 4 of the same size and weight (that is 2 Orbit Shifters vs 4 LS1208) but that's if we assume that both sets will have equal output. But looks like I won't be able to afford 2 Orbit Shifters and get stuck with LS1208s.

My advice. That setup would kick ass for larger shows. It's a waste of everything. EVERYTHING trying to downsize it for smaller shows under 350 people.

Buy once. Buy right. Good deals come and go.... more will come up... consider the STX and consider going powered if possible...

So what modern, or better yet active system would give you same performance as your 4 SLS960 and 6 LS1208s?  STX835 weights same as a SLS960 and less efficient and not as loud so you'll need to stock a pile of them again, and 3 times more expensive, and not as far shooting. Active SRX835 are even quieter. Loud active subs are a great but expensive. .. For outdoors we have 3 people minimum so not exactly your case with one man doing everything.

A rig as loud as yours but active will cost a ton of cash. And weight of tops can't be much lower than 130 lbs unless we spread it to multiple cabs, at least per my research, and back to square one with piles of cabs.

[Goerge Thomas]

Align them with what? if you think you have them aligned with the mains while center clustered try a different measurement location. You cannot time/phase align speaker systems that are located close to each other except for a limited location. Move around the audience and the alignment changes. To have the alignment work over a wide area the 2 systems must be located near each other physically.

Mac

Kerr,

Generally when I have to center cluster subs, they have to go in front of the stage or on the ground generally a few feet out in front of the mains. Thus, delay may be involved.  I have also run into this issue when tops are flown and the subs are actually placed several feet behind the flown tops. When I stack up subs on the sides, they can generally go on stage Depending on venue or directly underneath the tops. Either way, it's a non-issue with any basic processor.  You could also argue that you should be using delay based on the length of the horn in a horn loaded cabinet and their physical location at the venue. This can be true for mains or subs and should be noted when mixing and matching front loaded and horn loaded cabinets in the same system.

The answer to your question is, it depends.

To each their own.

My 2 cents

[ProSoundWeb Community]