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Author Topic: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp  (Read 39107 times)

Keith Broughton

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Re: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp
« Reply #90 on: December 20, 2015, 12:44:53 PM »

Crest factor to impedance corrected in my post. Thanks for pointing out that error. (proof read Keith!)
As for the duration of the test, I still think short burst tests are valid but long term load tests should be included. I don't see that in most manufacturers specs.
The graph of the K10 is very telling as to what happens to the available power when load vs time is demonstrated.
I'm using an Italian made 2x21 sub with 2 amps that are 3500 watts and both are fed from a 115 v 20 service.
It might be very interesting to see the same kind of test applied to them as was shown on the K10.
Considering the subs were purchased with EDM program material in mind, they might not perform the required task and empirical data would be helpful in showing that.
It's fine to suggest getting opinions from users of different amps to find out how they work but that's not always going to get bias free info.
After spending $20,000 (or whatever) on amps, most people won't admit they bought the wrong gear!
"We want....information"
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp
« Reply #91 on: December 20, 2015, 02:17:38 PM »

I want to apologize for blinding folks with science making this seem too complicated to easily grasp but it is complicated...

The simple answer for most is does amp X work with speakers Y, playing music Z.

We can simulate results for X and Y from computer models of manufacturer's actual designs if they share enough information. In theory a computer model could plug music Z (from recordings) into the models for X loaded by Y and predict far more accurately than a graph what would happen (pass/fail).

A dynamics processor could be applied to the pre-recorded music (either compression or expansion) as needed to better model the expected application's demands. I used to put pre-recorded music through my gated burst processor, to dramatically increase the crest factor to stress my dynamic processor designs (companding noise reductions, comp/limiters, etc). 

This could give a relatively simple pass/fail result, and maybe even provide a sense of remaining headroom by making the source material more demanding until it fails. A shaped noise source could be more generic as a source, but less specific at the same time.

This is all too hard for me to do with a simple graph, but not impossible for a computer to manipulate models that could factor in far more variables*** in quasi real time.

JR

***Perhaps a good project for a computer nerd out there... I already have more projects than I can finish this lifetime.  8)
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp
« Reply #92 on: December 20, 2015, 02:26:59 PM »

I want to apologize for blinding folks with science making this seem too complicated to easily grasp but it is complicated...


My life was simple until you came along with your ...cresting amplifier power time function burst delta voltages... ;D ;D
Really, it's good to hash out these things as it creates a better understanding of what we are dealing with.
As Ivan says, "it depends" on a number of factors.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp
« Reply #93 on: December 20, 2015, 03:44:37 PM »

This would make sense if the customer knew the actual crest factor that his application really needs. Since physics dictates that the same amp can deliver higher crest factor into lower Z loads, accurately specifying the amp, and showing it in the best light is to reveal how much it "could" deliver into each load impedance.

Is that why we have specs? To show the amp in the best light? That's not why I would be interested in them.

If you are only going to have a single number for each load impedance I still hold it should be based on the same signal. Having information on different signals would be swell, and would provide useful new information, but making it so there can be no comparison for output under equal input conditions is hiding behind specs in my opinion.

Mac
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp
« Reply #94 on: December 20, 2015, 04:12:32 PM »

Is that why we have specs? To show the amp in the best light? That's not why I would be interested in them.

If you are only going to have a single number for each load impedance I still hold it should be based on the same signal. Having information on different signals would be swell, and would provide useful new information, but making it so there can be no comparison for output under equal input conditions is hiding behind specs in my opinion.

Mac

Excuse me for repeating myself but the maximum amplifier crest factor is a fixed characteristic of the design, and is different for different impedances. If you force the crest factor to be less than the natural maximum for that impedance you must either lower the bridge (Peak) or lower the water (continuous average) for that impedance.

Testing the other impedances at the natural crest factor for another is actually arbitrary and understates what the amplifier is capable of. 

Since i'm starting to bore even myself, i'll stop now.

Merry Christmas

JR
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp
« Reply #95 on: December 20, 2015, 05:18:32 PM »

Excuse me for repeating myself but the maximum amplifier crest factor is a fixed characteristic of the design, and is different for different impedances. If you force the crest factor to be less than the natural maximum for that impedance you must either lower the bridge (Peak) or lower the water (continuous average) for that impedance.

Then that is what you should do. Someone shopping for an amp based on power specs (maybe not the best way) doesn't care that he can get more power with a different crest factor at a different impedance, he cares about what the amp can deliver with his signal at various impedances. Yes it is arbitrary to pick 1 crest factor, maybe a 3x3 grid of three impedances (because we have traditionally had that) by three crest factors would be better, but changing 2 variable is not helpful to a shopper, only helpful the manufacturer wanting higher power specs on his product.

Mac
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Pascal.Pincosy

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Re: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp
« Reply #96 on: December 22, 2015, 02:04:48 AM »

I just saw these on Danley's web site. They look really really nice. Like I need to start a fund for them nice. 8)

Are these units actually out yet? Any word on pricing and availability?

Ivan?

DNA 20K4 Pro Amplifier
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/products/amps-dsp/dna-10k-20k-pro/
So Ivan,

What's the deal with the HF limiter function?

DNA SC48 DSP Processor
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/products/amps-dsp/dna-sc48/
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp
« Reply #97 on: December 22, 2015, 09:06:32 AM »

I just saw these on Danley's web site. They look really really nice. Like I need to start a fund for them nice. 8)

Are these units actually out yet? Any word on pricing and availability?

Ivan?

DNA 20K4 Pro Amplifier
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/products/amps-dsp/dna-10k-20k-pro/
So Ivan,

What's the deal with the HF limiter function?

DNA SC48 DSP Processor
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/products/amps-dsp/dna-sc48/
They have been shipping for quite a while.  I stay away from pricing-Dealers, reps and the Danley office have information on pricing.

The HF limiter is used primarily in a 2 or 3 way cabinet, in which the HF cannot take the same voltage as the lower freq.

The amp is set slightly differently than the system processor (but the function is the same)

In the amp it is set by voltage, in the processor it is set as dB down from the basic limiter voltage.

It is great for things like feedback-that would be low enough to not trigger the regular limiter, but would burn out the HF driver or if the system is being pushed hard-a screaming trumpet or harmonica etc.

-6dB is a good "general starting point" for many cabinets.

The overshoot allows what size peaks that are allowed to come through

The limiter attack time (in the regular or VX mode) is not adjustable, but rather is set (automatically) by the highpass filter on that channel.

The thermal limiter has a separate/release attack time
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Ivan Beaver
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PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

radulescu_paul_mircea

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Re: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp
« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2016, 10:06:05 AM »

Hi Ivan,
You have a pm from me
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Re: Danley DNA SC48/20K4 Pro Processor/Amp
« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2016, 10:06:05 AM »


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