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Author Topic: SRX828p - at my wit's end!  (Read 20105 times)

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2015, 08:46:49 pm »

Phillips cross-head screws were designed to "cam-out" at high torque. Pozidriv cross-head screws are designed NOT to cam-out.  I agree that a Torx head or an ordinary hex head machine screw is easier to deal with. I change out funky screws as a standard practice.

Debbie, FWIW, you can get Phillips head drivers (in sizes) for your socket set.  Fly your tool freak flag proudly, sister!

Oh I have all kinds of cool tools and socket pieces AND I actually do use them !!!…….Its just that there is nothing like the secure feel of a socket on a hex bolt….oh yeah!!
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Scott Holtzman

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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2015, 08:47:23 pm »

I've noticed that Steve when I go back to the UK…..Its still mainly Philips here.

And a girl that knows the difference, bestill my heart.  My  wife can roll cables and is fairly good with tools,  I just asked her and she doesn't know what a posi drive is. 
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Bob Leonard

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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2015, 10:14:23 pm »

Debbie,

First, it was not my intent to insult you as was implied. My goal was to enlighten the community to the need for using extreme caution when mounting parts of any type when "T" nuts are involved.

Many moon ago I worked as a model maker/experimental machinist. This was a job I help for uncle Sam that lasted 20 years before changing my vocation and career path. Regardless, there are some myths to dispel.

"T" nut, or blind rivets as they are sometimes called come in many varieties, and I believe JBL could end this problem by using the correct type "T" nut for this purpose. Note that your picture shows a 3 prong "T" nut. Common with furniture and used in places where access to the "T" is possible. The prongs are tapered of course, because they are designed to penetrate the wood. They are NOT designed to keep the "T" nut from backing out, but merely to keep the "T" nut from spinning and to hold it in place while starting the screw.

Another type of "T", which JBL should be using, is designed with the intent to lock the "T" nut in place after penetrating the wood. These "T" nuts are designed for high retention in wood making the chance of knocking one out slim at best. The "T" nuts of the type you show have little retention capabilities. Even light force when starting the screw or bolt can sometimes push the common "T" nut out.

The type "T" nut JBL should be using are known as "high retention" or Propell nuts.

Here is a link that shows those nuts, which can be purchased to replace the common "T" nut if the need ever arises.

http://shop.stafast.com/t-nuts

Phillips head screws have the same strength as any other screw using a different head style, regardless of that style, be it Torx, Posidrive, Triwing, clutch, Robertson, Square, Double square, Polydrive, Bristol, etc.. The many head types were designed for different applications, mainly due to automated insertion and security. Next time your in a public restroom look at the screws holding the walls. Those are known as "One way" screws. They go in, but are not intended to be removed without a special removal tool.

The real deal with any screw type is using the correct tool to drive or remove the screw. Phillips head screws are precisely designed, and contrary to belief they are not designed so that the driver slips out. If the driver slips out then 1) you're using the wrong size driver, or 2) the driver is worn out, simple as that. To keep from stripping the head of any fastener use the right size driver, use a quality driver, and use a hardened steel tipped driver that fits precisely. The best technique will be to start the screw, turn until it starts to tighten, then finish tightening the screw by pushing down with force by putting the palm of your hand on the end of the driver and turning at the same time. Removal is the reverse of insertion, always keeping downward force on the driver until the screw starts to turn. Lastly, if your driver becomes rounded or constantly jumps out of the screw head, buy a new driver.

The most common Phillips drivers most people need will be 0, 1, 2, and 3. Always keep a long driver on hand. My favorite is a Craftsman #2, 8" magnetized. Why Craftsman? Because they make great tools, their screw drivers fit properly, and when you wear them out you can have them replaced at any Sears for free. Good luck kiddo, and don't give up on JBL.

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Jeremy Young

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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2015, 10:32:00 pm »

I'll take a robertson over a phillips any day, eh!
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2015, 10:50:32 pm »

I'll take a robertson over a phillips any day, eh!

Yes.  In the US, it also tends to serve as a tamper-resistant fastener (although much less so than 30 years ago). Japanese cross-head screws have a slightly different internal profile than the classic Phillips design. "JIS" (Japanese Industrial Standard) spec cross-head screwdrivers are available from various suppliers. It makes a difference when you use the right tool.

Sorry for the topic swerve.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2015, 12:11:50 am »

Debbie,

First, it was not my intent to insult you as was implied. My goal was to enlighten the community to the need for using extreme caution when mounting parts of any type when "T" nuts are involved.

Many moon ago I worked as a model maker/experimental machinist. This was a job I help for uncle Sam that lasted 20 years before changing my vocation and career path. Regardless, there are some myths to dispel.

"T" nut, or blind rivets as they are sometimes called come in many varieties, and I believe JBL could end this problem by using the correct type "T" nut for this purpose. Note that your picture shows a 3 prong "T" nut. Common with furniture and used in places where access to the "T" is possible. The prongs are tapered of course, because they are designed to penetrate the wood. They are NOT designed to keep the "T" nut from backing out, but merely to keep the "T" nut from spinning and to hold it in place while starting the screw.

Another type of "T", which JBL should be using, is designed with the intent to lock the "T" nut in place after penetrating the wood. These "T" nuts are designed for high retention in wood making the chance of knocking one out slim at best. The "T" nuts of the type you show have little retention capabilities. Even light force when starting the screw or bolt can sometimes push the common "T" nut out.

The type "T" nut JBL should be using are known as "high retention" or Propell nuts.

Here is a link that shows those nuts, which can be purchased to replace the common "T" nut if the need ever arises.

http://shop.stafast.com/t-nuts

Phillips head screws have the same strength as any other screw using a different head style, regardless of that style, be it Torx, Posidrive, Triwing, clutch, Robertson, Square, Double square, Polydrive, Bristol, etc.. The many head types were designed for different applications, mainly due to automated insertion and security. Next time your in a public restroom look at the screws holding the walls. Those are known as "One way" screws. They go in, but are not intended to be removed without a special removal tool.

The real deal with any screw type is using the correct tool to drive or remove the screw. Phillips head screws are precisely designed, and contrary to belief they are not designed so that the driver slips out. If the driver slips out then 1) you're using the wrong size driver, or 2) the driver is worn out, simple as that. To keep from stripping the head of any fastener use the right size driver, use a quality driver, and use a hardened steel tipped driver that fits precisely. The best technique will be to start the screw, turn until it starts to tighten, then finish tightening the screw by pushing down with force by putting the palm of your hand on the end of the driver and turning at the same time. Removal is the reverse of insertion, always keeping downward force on the driver until the screw starts to turn. Lastly, if your driver becomes rounded or constantly jumps out of the screw head, buy a new driver.

The most common Phillips drivers most people need will be 0, 1, 2, and 3. Always keep a long driver on hand. My favorite is a Craftsman #2, 8" magnetized. Why Craftsman? Because they make great tools, their screw drivers fit properly, and when you wear them out you can have them replaced at any Sears for free. Good luck kiddo, and don't give up on JBL.

Sometimes our intent can be poorly communicated when expressed in writing - I dislike texts for the same reason - LOL… no worries Bob….
Any information shared here is valuable to folks - I absorb everything I read on this forum like a sponge and try not to take things personally. As I have said many times, I appreciate and value all the advice I have received over the few years I have been a member here.

I haven't given up on JBL just yet…. I have had too many years of excellent service for that to happen …..although right about now…..they are pushing their luck !

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Scott Holtzman

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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2015, 12:48:14 am »

The best technique will be to start the screw, turn until it starts to tighten, then finish tightening the screw by pushing down with force by putting the palm of your hand on the end of the driver and turning at the same time. Removal is the reverse of insertion, always keeping downward force on the driver until the screw starts to turn. Lastly, if your driver becomes rounded or constantly jumps out of the screw head, buy a new driver.

.

Geez Bob, all these years I thought you were supposed to balance the screw on the head of a electric drill motor, run it up to full speed with the clutch disabled, ram the screw in the hole and then strip the shit out of the head as it goes in.

The other variation of this technique when using machine threads is to cross thread the fastener then use the power of the tool to strip the threads while concurrently stripping the shit out of the head, hoping the fastener snugs up before it is destroyed.

This also provides extra work for the poor SOB that has to take it apart and when done in racks in data centers really pisses the boss off.

It also provides much humor to watch someone use this technique to secure the first screw of a speaker driver while the cabinet is still vertical.  This requires the extra skill of supporting the weight of the driver while getting the screw to bite into the wood (because all the t-nuts are stuck to the back of the driver after you pushed them out) without ramming the fastener through the cone. 

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Steve M Smith

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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2015, 02:45:22 am »

Sometimes our intent can be poorly communicated when expressed in writing - I dislike texts for the same reason - LOL… no worries Bob….
I didn't see any insult in Bob's post.  I read it as more of a "don't worry, it coud happen to anyone" comment rather than "you idiot, you shouldn't have done that" sort of comment.

You are correct about written responses (I don't do texts, but that's probably because I don't have a phone).  When we speak face to face we have tone of voice and body language to express ourselves with.  Take that away and it's very easy to take something the wrong way.

I have seen forum posts go off on an irrelevant tangent for many pages upsetting people over something which was nothing to do with the point being made.  Not on this forum though.  This one is great.


Steve.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 02:48:41 am by Steve M Smith »
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Marjan Milosevic

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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2015, 04:50:57 am »

Sorry but i must disagree with Bob and some others here.
Tnuts should not be easy to push back if they are secured as they should be.
So this is just very poor and unprofessional mounting of tnuts there by JBL.
Here is how it should be done.
On the subs we are putting two screws.

Steve M Smith

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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2015, 05:06:48 am »

Whilst that is a good 'belt and braces'* method to ensure they do not turn or fall out, it souldn't really be necessary.

I don't know enough about T nuts, but Bob did state that he thought the wrong type were being used.

A T nut, in my opinion, is pointless if it does not stay in place by itself and it should be able to do that without any outside help.

(* do you use that expression in the US?).


Steve.
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Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2015, 05:06:48 am »


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