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Poll

Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre?

D&B V System
- 17 (60.7%)
L-Acoustics Kara
- 8 (28.6%)
Meyer Leopard
- 3 (10.7%)

Total Members Voted: 28


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Author Topic: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre  (Read 12519 times)

Malek Pallie

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Re: Preference of system for Mixing on.
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2015, 04:58:58 PM »

Big red flag for me is that it sounds like the OP is helping the management out, but isn't the audio consultant hired for the job. There should be someone who is hired in to guide management in determining their needs, figuring out the budget, making sure that the system will meet the riders (if applicable) of any touring acts that might hit the PAC, and THEN start looking at brands. Modeling the room, ensuring that the package will work as advertised and (of course) post sale support are all things that this audio consultant could and should be doing as a part of their contract. That way, you have a "versed in the industry" advocate that will help PAC management to review and compare the offerings from different manufacturers, so you select the best product for the job, and not what a particular vendor is trying to sell you.

-Ray

You make some good points, Ray. Thanks for your thoughts! There is a system design consultant that one of the main stakeholders has hired to help with this process, but I have been brought in by one of the other stakeholders because they think I am good mix engineer (not sure what gave them that impression  ;D) and I do production management at premier local venue, and as such they value my input. 
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2015, 05:51:41 PM »

At the level of JBL VTX, l'Acoustic K2/K,1, d&b J, etc. there aren't really clear winners or losers.  While still competent rigs, anything installed today will be out of favor (with someone) next year.  The things that make a difference in portable use (rigging, truck pack, handling, powering) are mostly irrelevant in an installation.

You almost can't go wrong with any "A List" model so I'd cast my vote for the rig that comes with the best local support and occasional cross-hiring of subs, front fills or other supplemental items.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2015, 07:55:46 PM »

Scott,

The OP specified the line array boxes in the poll. Whether line arrays will cover the room as well as point source boxes is another issue, but there are only three choices, and no "other".

The fact this is a poll would have been more clear if stated in the title.
"Preference of system for Mixing on" made me think the thread was going to ask for a preference of mixing consoles, not a choice between 3 line arrays.

Art
Maybe I am dumb as a rock today but even with the OP's edits I still don't see a poll or any vendors hardware specified.  This would have changed my post completely.

Perhaps I should stay clearly in my are of best knowledge as my comments seem to be off base.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

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Jason Raboin

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Re: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2015, 08:57:49 PM »

I don't think many people have mixed on Leopard yet.  It was just introduced. 

Kara was introduced in 2010, I think.  So it's already 5 years old.  How long before L'acoustics releases a newer replacement?  That will be when tours will start to ask for something else.  V came out in 2012, and Leopard, as I said, just came out.

Leopard and Kara are both 2 way systems, 9" and 8" respectively.  V are 3 way 10" passive.  V should have the better pattern control and higher max. SPL. 

All 3 have excellent control software, but Meyer got rid of the array correction feature in Callisto.  I prefer to control and tune in R1 or LA Network Manager with a slight edge to LA Network Manager.  But if you can afford one amp channel per V, you can use the ArrayProcessing function, which is similar to what Martin MLA does.

It's a tough call, and one that is really dependent on a lot of criteria, but with the information you have given, I would go with V series, especially if you can get one amp channel per box.
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2015, 10:39:04 AM »

I completely understand the compromise of this situation as a whole, and I've been involved in many baffling RFT processes with various companies and venues, so I feel your pain.

Fully acknowledging that there isn't enough info here to make a well informed call, I would go with d&b V based on the following factors:
1. Sonically i prefer V to the other brands listed.
2. Array processing is a great tool, so thats a good bonus if you can get it.
3. Its newer than Kara, and has more useful options in terms of both horizontal dispersion and splay angle. Kara makes a great K1 df, I'm not a massive fan of it as a system as a whole.
4. The d&b subs, particularly the v-sub, I would take over a sub by L'acoustics any day. In fact, IMHO, I feel like the L'acoustics subs let the team down a bit, especially at the lower end of their lineup

It goes without saying that you need whatever system you go with to have good local support
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2015, 08:42:52 AM »

Sitting in a similar situation to you I will give you my experience.

Go with the manufacturer that you believe will be installed correctly and will give you continued support.

Other than that I feel that between the Meyer and the D&B both are good boxes, I don't like how the kara sounds but that's because I'm biased.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2015, 02:37:42 PM »

Maybe I am dumb as a rock today but even with the OP's edits I still don't see a poll or any vendors hardware specified.  This would have changed my post completely.

Perhaps I should stay clearly in my are of best knowledge as my comments seem to be off base.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I don't think us Tapatalk users see the poll.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Kyle Gerhart

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Re: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2015, 03:06:37 PM »

Has this question been asked before? Of course! But...I am helping the management of a large (3500 seats) performing arts style space which is looking to upgrade their FOH system make this decision, and they are getting a lot of conflicting information from different vendors about what is the "best" system for them.

Floor is approximately 220' wide at the widest and 120' deep, balcony is 250' at the widest and 75' deep. Ceiling height from deck to ceiling is 75'.

I am of the opinion that any professional product that is well deployed will work for their needs, but of course, there are vendors who would like them to be married to the particular brand which they deal in, and so they sell it as "the best".

This space hosts a variety of events, including classical orchestras, rock, bluegrass, and pop bands, and spoken word events, so versatility is important.

The bids which are being considered at this phase are all the same configuration (for a fair comparison, as much as is possible):

- 2 hangs of 12 boxes each side
- 4 front fills on stage
- Subs on the floor

Presumably, a 48in 16 out console will be part of the upgrade (but that is a subject for another post).

Did I miss anything? 

I would like as many professional mix engineers as possible on this forum to vote so that I can either show that I am wrong and there actually is one brand which most engineers prefer, or that the preferences at this level of product are quite evenly spread out based on personal taste.

Thanks all!

I mix an almost identical room to the spec's that you have listed on a regular basis. Our venue has a Clair 208 rig installed with 8 box's per side with two single 18"subs flown. We have two double 18" subs in the floor, as well as 4 front fills. Clair also installed eight delay fills for under and over the balcony. The system is tuned to the room quite nicely. Having the delay fills run off of a matrix in the BSS processor makes the room very easy and natural to mix. The flown subs are tied into the main L&R of the system,ground stack subs and front fills are on an Aux's. Overall if you have a system that is tuned and time aligned properly, you should get good coverage in the venue.

We have an SC48 at FOH, which also meets your spec's. Personally not my favorite sounding console, but it is extremely rider friendly and great for guest engineers.

As to my opinion on what PA to go with, I tend to lean towards the Meyer way of thinking. I like very linear systems, especially in a venue that is going to have multiple genres. I have had nothing but success whenever I have mixed on one of their systems that was set up and tuned properly.

Just my 2 cents.






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Rick Earl

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Re: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2015, 10:13:14 PM »

At the level of JBL VTX, l'Acoustic K2/K,1, d&b J, etc. there aren't really clear winners or losers.  While still competent rigs, anything installed today will be out of favor (with someone) next year.  The things that make a difference in portable use (rigging, truck pack, handling, powering) are mostly irrelevant in an installation.

You almost can't go wrong with any "A List" model so I'd cast my vote for the rig that comes with the best local support and occasional cross-hiring of subs, front fills or other supplemental items.

I think this says it all.  When  I was touring and HAD to have something, I brought it with me.   For many tours, the A-List  installed "racks and stacks" will have to do.  Now that I am in a venue, I am much more concerned with service.  I've yet to have an act refuse my PA, but I also have a local vendor that has the same system, is a dealer for parts,  and easily can supplement if I need other things. 
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2015, 10:14:55 PM »


As to my opinion on what PA to go with, I tend to lean towards the Meyer way of thinking. I like very linear systems, especially in a venue that is going to have multiple genres. I have had nothing but success whenever I have mixed on one of their systems that was set up and tuned properly.

Just my 2 cents.

The bolded text is the most important part.  Many of the systems I do not like the sound of JDLR.  Sometime you can tell by careful visual inspection that speakers are pointed funny and your ears tell you nobody was listening off-axis (or under the balcony, etc) when the turning was done.

I've witnessed almost every major flavor of rig badly deployed and I've head all of them badly tuned and operated.  Conversely I've heard those same rigs sound very good (and few times were absolutely stunning) - appropriately tuned for the genre and operated by skilled mixerpersons that actually like music.

The scale of the rig is important as simply adding more small elements to a vertical array does not equate to a louder (and certainly not cleaner sounding) rig.  Buy the scale of rig that puts the needed average SPL on the seats at the furthest distance, that uses the fewest number of boxes to provide the length for LF directivity down to your target frequency.  Flying half the subs is a great tool that is often neglected (it's cool that your room got this treatment, Kyle!).

I don't see the poll so I've got no idea what the choices are so I'll echo Jean-Pierre's comment:  all things being equal, buy the system that comes from the dealer/installer with the best service/support reputation.  Remember that you all have to live with it (possibly for as long as 15 - 20 years), your consultant doesn't.

Let us know how this all sorts out.
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Favorite speaker system to mix on in a theatre
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2015, 10:14:55 PM »


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