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Author Topic: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?  (Read 4248 times)

Richard Turner

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Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« on: September 15, 2015, 08:54:09 am »

Have a handshake deal ongoing and it suits me to not have drawn a contract up on this one.

Client has missed a deadline for deposit, is not wanting to take the 10 minutes to meet and seems to think its "fine" to just have a personal check waiting at the gig. I've explained on phone and email twice already all checks must be bank draft or certified and the quoted rate was for prepaid in cash.

I just dont think they realize I'm not kidding, nothing leaves the truck till I'm cash in hand. Personal check payment would have had to happen 5 weeks ago to know it cleared.

How much leeway do any of you allow?
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Steve Alves

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2015, 09:20:09 am »

We take 50% to reserve the date and the balance upon arrival before unloading.
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Bob Cap

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2015, 09:44:25 am »

Have a handshake deal ongoing and it suits me to not have drawn a contract up on this one.

Client has missed a deadline for deposit, is not wanting to take the 10 minutes to meet and seems to think its "fine" to just have a personal check waiting at the gig. I've explained on phone and email twice already all checks must be bank draft or certified and the quoted rate was for prepaid in cash.

I just dont think they realize I'm not kidding, nothing leaves the truck till I'm cash in hand. Personal check payment would have had to happen 5 weeks ago to know it cleared.

How much leeway do any of you allow?

The times they are a changing...

I used to prefer a handshake, especially with clients I've had for years.

Unfortunately not anymore. I showed up for one of the jobs I've had for 35 years only to find out someone new on their board found another company and saved $200....

It cost me more than that for truck loading, employee wages and driving time to get to the gig. Not to mention the $14,000 I lost on payment for the gig.

Dyllan had it right.

Bob Cap
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2015, 09:58:52 am »

Have a handshake deal ongoing and it suits me to not have drawn a contract up on this one.

Client has missed a deadline for deposit, is not wanting to take the 10 minutes to meet and seems to think its "fine" to just have a personal check waiting at the gig. I've explained on phone and email twice already all checks must be bank draft or certified and the quoted rate was for prepaid in cash.

I just dont think they realize I'm not kidding, nothing leaves the truck till I'm cash in hand. Personal check payment would have had to happen 5 weeks ago to know it cleared.

How much leeway do any of you allow?
It depends on the relationship.  I never leave the house without a signed contract.  I may be somewhat flexible with payment terms if I trust the client, but if there are any red flags, I take action.

In this particular situation, it seems prudent to say that unless you at least get the deposit in cash or certified check before the day of, you're not showing up, and that you're not unloading the truck until the balance is paid in cash or certified check.

Bad business is not better than no business.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2015, 09:59:06 am »

The times they are a changing...

I used to prefer a handshake, especially with clients I've had for years.

Unfortunately not anymore. I showed up for one of the jobs I've had for 35 years only to find out someone new on their board found another company and saved $200....

It cost me more than that for truck loading, employee wages and driving time to get to the gig. Not to mention the $14,000 I lost on payment for the gig.

Dyllan had it right.

Bob Cap
Sorry Bob - that sucks.
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Gordon Brinton

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 10:42:13 am »

...Client has missed a deadline for deposit...

That should have been the breaking point. Call the client and tell him that the deal is off due to his failure to make advanced deposit. I'd bet he would drop what he is doing and come to your house/office within that same hour.

On the other hand, if it's an ongoing deal that has always worked before, why are you suddenly not accepting his checks?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 10:45:23 am by Gordon Brinton »
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Tim Halligan

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 11:05:15 am »

How much leeway do any of you allow?

I work predominantly in the film & tv post world, so the amount of leeway we give depends on our history with the client.

Old reliable, regular clients would get the benefit of the doubt. New clients, and clients from out of town/state/country get stricter deadlines.

Personal check payment would have had to happen 5 weeks ago to know it cleared.

Slightly off-topic, but holy crap!

Which third-world country are you banking in?   :o

Down here, all cheques usually take 3 business days to clear from when the bank receives it...and we complain bitterly about it.

I guess we're just used to "instant everything" in this day and age.

Cheers,
Tim
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Richard Turner

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 12:10:19 pm »



Which third-world country are you banking in?   :o


Dyslexia kicked in , was a handshake deal going on. its a wedding related gig so a 1 time only client.

Missed deopsit deadline was more due to scheduling and honestly wanting to be paid out cash for the job. Was booked in late summer so unlike ones I am booking now which are for 2016..... even a couple 2017 it want really worth the time and waste of 2 hours to meet them over such a small amount on a job so soon.

I'm up in Canada.

Essentially with a personal check if you deposit it to your account it still can take up to 28 working days to completly clear leaving you save with your money. Depends on where it was drawn from. credit union check deposit to a major 5 bank can take a while sometimes. Mostly its settles in 10 days or less but not always.

The only true way to actually "Cash" a check is to take it to the bank it was drawn on , the physical branch and only then at the discretion of the branch manager. Check is a negotiable item. I prefer the interac transfer system we have up here now, its instant and final.

Also Did I mention the 14% tax we have up here on goods and services rendered? We like our cash.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 01:07:10 pm »

Also Did I mention the 14% tax we have up here on goods and services rendered? We like our cash.

I don't believe I would have put that on the internet!  :)
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kel mcguire

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 01:42:00 pm »

On a one-time job, a check is a little scary, especially if you don't know anyone well. We can call the bank to see if there are enough funds for the check to clear. Can you do that in Canada?

I'd factor in a lot of circumstantial evidence into my decision:
-Is the place nice?
-Can you ask the venue, food services and wedding planner if they've been compensated?
-Does your contact seem sketchy? Busy before a wedding is one thing, sketchy and low class another..
-Can you still get the client to sign off on the gig, noting that you fulfilled your part of the deal to satisfaction?  Sketchy types can try to get out of paying, claiming you jacked up their wedding somehow..


document everything said.
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Bob Cap

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2015, 04:10:06 pm »

Sorry Bob - that sucks.

You're telling me....
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 06:39:15 pm »

Dyslexia kicked in , was a handshake deal going on. its a wedding related gig so a 1 time only client.

Missed deopsit deadline was more due to scheduling and honestly wanting to be paid out cash for the job. Was booked in late summer so unlike ones I am booking now which are for 2016..... even a couple 2017 it want really worth the time and waste of 2 hours to meet them over such a small amount on a job so soon.

I'm up in Canada.

Essentially with a personal check if you deposit it to your account it still can take up to 28 working days to completly clear leaving you save with your money. Depends on where it was drawn from. credit union check deposit to a major 5 bank can take a while sometimes. Mostly its settles in 10 days or less but not always.

The only true way to actually "Cash" a check is to take it to the bank it was drawn on , the physical branch and only then at the discretion of the branch manager. Check is a negotiable item. I prefer the interac transfer system we have up here now, its instant and final.

Also Did I mention the 14% tax we have up here on goods and services rendered? We like our cash.

I like Interac eTransfers.
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2015, 07:40:59 am »

I don't believe I would have put that on the internet!  :)
We like our cash and ALWAYS charge the appropriate taxes....right Richard? ;)
None of my clients or jobs is not charged  the HST.
It's just part of the biz.

As for the OP, call and say they have failed to fulfil their part of the deal and you won't do the job.
As stated earlier, I bet that lights a fire.

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Ray Aberle

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2015, 07:49:58 am »

We like our cash and ALWAYS charge the appropriate taxes....right Richard? ;)
None of my clients or jobs is not charged  the HST.
It's just part of the biz.

As for the OP, call and say they have failed to fulfil their part of the deal and you won't do the job.
As stated earlier, I bet that lights a fire.

"I am simply unable to hold your reservation any longer without a signed contract and deposit. Since I have another client asking about your date, do you want to confirm the show now, with the deposit, or can I release your date to this other client? Thank you!"

Easy enough. Yeah, I don't like the ethical position of lying about this other, imaginary customer, but this way the client you do have sees that they need to complete the booking process in advance of their event, or it's not that you won't show up (well, you won't) but that another client is going to hire you away.

-Ray
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2015, 08:29:23 am »

First thing you need to understand about the wedding industry....everything is paid weeks in advance.   If not, you have no money and they are still married and don't care about you and never will!  You won't get paid for wedding work if not paid in advance!
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W. Mark Hellinger

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2015, 10:39:24 am »

First thing you need to understand about the wedding industry....everything is paid weeks in advance.   If not, you have no money and they are still married and don't care about you and never will!  You won't get paid for wedding work if not paid in advance!
I'd suspect if you're in the business for awhile, there's litmus tests.

Example:  One of my neighbors is the managing director for the local cemetery district.  A while back he explained his primary litmus tests concerning cemetery customers.  As I understand his explanation, caskets are buried/housed in concrete sarcophagus.  The sarcophagus is a concrete containment box for the casket so burial plots can be dug "tight" next to previous.  As I understand there's 3 grades of sarcophagus... the cheapest is referred to as "county grade", which is structurally and functionally the same as the standard grade, only the county grade has some blems or such that discounts it's cost.  Mid-priced is "standard grade", and the high-priced model is referred to as "the Cadillac".  All three models do exactly the same job... and look exactly the same to the audience the day of the funeral... it's a concrete box in the ground that the casket gets lowered into.  The cemetery manager explained that if the county grade sarcophagus is specified, the check(s) paying for the funeral and such will generally be "good as gold"... payment is "never a problem".  If the standard grade sarcophagus is specified, payment is generally "no problem", but might take awhile.  And almost universally, if the Cadillac sarcophagus is specified, the funeral arrangements are likely being funded with "borrowed money", or ? ... and getting paid is generally "iffy"... especially if deferred to the "day of the show" or "after the fact".
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 10:42:22 am by W. Mark Hellinger »
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James A. Griffin

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2015, 11:02:58 am »

First thing you need to understand about the wedding industry....everything is paid weeks in advance.   If not, you have no money and they are still married and don't care about you and never will!  You won't get paid for wedding work if not paid in advance!

+1

Getting my daughter marrried a few years ago was like managing a mult-stage festival where  you're booking the bands,  food vendors, and caterer.    Lots of moving parts and everyone wanted 50% - 100% in advance, which was fine with me.  The last thing I needed to think about on that day was writing the checks and getting them delivered.   

Your client should know this drill and understand that he's not likely to get you to show up without some sort of advance payment.
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2015, 06:18:06 am »

First thing you need to understand about the wedding industry....everything is paid weeks in advance.   If not, you have no money and they are still married and don't care about you and never will!  You won't get paid for wedding work if not paid in advance!

Or cash when you show up. Or it goes back into the trailer. I have checks for future weddings laying in front of me right now. I've yet to be stiffed by a wedding couple but had to track down a groom the day after who didn't have his checkbook the day of and it was was a "delivery and set up" and then I had to leave to do another gig. I got paid but it was sketchy for a few minutes. The bride's family ended up pooling their cash together to pay me. Prior to that incident I was getting paid the day of usually and never had an issue.

I used to not like taking money in advance because it always felt like I was working for free the day of but I've changed my mind on that.
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Jelmer de Jong

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Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2015, 03:19:19 pm »

Can't they just transfer the money from their account to your account? On the other side of the ocean transfer of money within the same bank is almost instantanious, between banks several hours and between countries takes a day. Two days max if there is some holiday going on and the bank uses it as downtime to do some maintenance.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Where to draw the line? clients and payments?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2015, 03:19:19 pm »


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