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Author Topic: Extended audio cabling run for stadium  (Read 5959 times)

Lee Buckalew

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Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2015, 10:56:43 pm »

I've got an install in an outdoor sports stadium that has 2 distinct 'sides' to it with bleacher seats.  My plan is to put a main rack in the pressbox with the the head-end equipment (west side bleachers) and another remote wall rack in an electrical room on the other side of the field for the amps and remote power controller for the opposite side bleachers (east side).

What's the climate control situation in the remote location?  I am assuming, and perhaps should not be, that the press box has air conditioning when it is in use.  Be sure to check the listed ambient temperature ratings.  I have run into issues with some devices (not all lines from a manufacturer will be rated to the same temperature) only rated to be operated in 95 degree Fahrenheit maximum ambient.  The highest that I have found are rated for about 120 Fahrenheit. 

Lee
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Jason Lavoie

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Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2015, 11:22:24 am »

I'll add another vote for just running some analog cable
Your conduit run will probably eat up most of your budget, and after that I'd take analog wiring over a budget digital system any day.
If you already had Dante or something in there then extending it would make more sense.

If you go with the wireless network route (if you find one that will run Dante or Cobranet well) your control signals can be replaced by an IP controlled power bar.

Jason
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Jim Richards

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Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2015, 08:47:28 pm »

All that's really needing to be sent 'down the wire' is one audio channel.  I've already thought about the ground differential possibility (read: PROBABILITY), so I am including transformer isolation at both ends to minimize any stray issues with that if I go hard line.

Press box will be air-conditioned when all is said and done, and I have done all the calcs for ambient temperature rise and THAT part of it shouldn't be an issue.  The system really isn't used through the summer heat all that much.  The major events in this stadium are football games (both high school and college) and track meets fall & spring.  There are some events that happen other times, but they are usually fairly low-key events in the evenings when the heat isn't so oppressive.  However, being in the Chicago area we've learned that if you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes...

I'm also looking toward possibly locating the remote a bit closer to where the wiring would traverse the infield.  It will cut out about 100-120' of cabling which would do nothing but help.

I really appreciate the opinions and ideas that you're all providing.  I've run 300-400' before without issues, but this one kind of caught me off-guard.

Thanks again!!
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2015, 08:54:43 pm »

All that's really needing to be sent 'down the wire' is one audio channel.  I've already thought about the ground differential possibility (read: PROBABILITY), so I am including transformer isolation at both ends to minimize any stray issues with that if I go hard line.

If all you need is 1 channel, going in 1 direction run analog cable. Cat5 cable is cheap and has excellent specs for analog audio. Just use 1 of the pairs as your balanced pair and don't connect any grounds. You should still probably have an iso transformer at the far end, and as Josh pointed out earlier you can use 1 of the other pairs for control of the power system on the far end. In the interest of safety you should probably run 2 runs of Cat5 so you have a spare.

Mac
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2015, 07:50:54 am »

One more vote for analog. Except I would run Cat6 just to make it a little more future resistant. Who knows, maybe network technology will evolve and eventually someone will make an Ethernet switch that can support a 1200' run. In that case you'll probably need the Cat6 (or who knows maybe Cat7). Cat5 is perfectly fine for analog audio but we always try to run Cat6 or better especially if it's a difficult pull that will be hard to replace in the future.


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Robert Lofgren

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Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2015, 08:30:33 am »

Probably making the fiber cheaper. If you are using installation fiber instead of portable tactical fiber a 2 strand piece of 50Ám MM fiber is not that expensive. the cost of installing it will far outweigh the cost of the fiber. I would go with fiber in any network run over 100' if I could (and I do)

Mac
Yeah, I used to work for a company that used compressed air to blow installation fiber in pvc-pipes for very long runs.
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Jim Richards

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Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2015, 10:32:32 am »

Thanks all for your opinions and comments!  After exploring the possibilities under the budget constraints and discussions with the owners, we're thinking of just going with the analog cable.  They have no future dreams of doing anything extensive with "the red-headed stepchild" past the existing lighting improvements and bringing audio to that side.

Thanks again!!
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John Rutirasiri

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Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2015, 12:18:36 am »

Thanks all for your opinions and comments!  After exploring the possibilities under the budget constraints and discussions with the owners, we're thinking of just going with the analog cable.  They have no future dreams of doing anything extensive with "the red-headed stepchild" past the existing lighting improvements and bringing audio to that side.

Thanks again!!
Jim, we just finished a high school football stadium.  Ripped out the old analog system.  500' from home (main) press box to visitor side (which I think is a LONG run for analog, even though balanced.) There wasn't an empty underground conduit we could hijack for fiber.  Link is AES/EBU over CAT6 (you can get 8ch on 1 CAT6).  Needed a distribution amp at the receiver due to distance.

Believe it or not, the sibilance which was somewhat subdued with the analog link is back with digital.  Previous install used 24AWG cables -- I was surprised at the HF rolloff.  I don't like sibilance when doing live sound, but for stadium it actually helps speech intelligibility.

RDL gear is great, many rated to 60C (140F)  Press boxes are like ovens in the summer.

If you've decided on analog, use a good cable such as Belden 8412.  Not sure if they come in flooded version.

Best,
John R.
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ClearImpact Sound & Event Services, Inc.
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John Rutirasiri

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Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2015, 12:28:16 am »

One more vote for analog. Except I would run Cat6 just to make it a little more future resistant. Who knows, maybe network technology will evolve and eventually someone will make an Ethernet switch that can support a 1200' run. In that case you'll probably need the Cat6 (or who knows maybe Cat7). Cat5 is perfectly fine for analog audio but we always try to run Cat6 or better especially if it's a difficult pull that will be hard to replace in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scott, totally agree with putting CAT6.  However, there will never be a category cabling (CATx) switch that supports 1200' run in a single span.  Nothing to do with the cabling or signal integrity, but rather propagation delay.  Ethernet is CSMA/CD -- it listens to what it sends before sending anymore, and there is a time limit that depends on distance when talking about copper cabling.

So it's fiber or putting midspans in between segments (essentially cascading switches.).

John R.
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Jim Richards

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Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2015, 09:05:15 am »

Jim, we just finished a high school football stadium.  Ripped out the old analog system.  500' from home (main) press box to visitor side (which I think is a LONG run for analog, even though balanced.) There wasn't an empty underground conduit we could hijack for fiber.  Link is AES/EBU over CAT6 (you can get 8ch on 1 CAT6).  Needed a distribution amp at the receiver due to distance.

Believe it or not, the sibilance which was somewhat subdued with the analog link is back with digital.  Previous install used 24AWG cables -- I was surprised at the HF rolloff.  I don't like sibilance when doing live sound, but for stadium it actually helps speech intelligibility.

RDL gear is great, many rated to 60C (140F)  Press boxes are like ovens in the summer.

If you've decided on analog, use a good cable such as Belden 8412.  Not sure if they come in flooded version.

Best,
John R.

John;
Yup, already spec'd the 8412 for the haul and it's being driven by a very low impedance driver based on a THAT1646 (own design).  It should make the trip very well.
Thanks for the input!
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