ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Extended audio cabling run for stadium  (Read 6580 times)

Jim Richards

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« on: August 03, 2015, 06:52:46 am »

I've got an install in an outdoor sports stadium that has 2 distinct 'sides' to it with bleacher seats.  My plan is to put a main rack in the pressbox with the the head-end equipment (west side bleachers) and another remote wall rack in an electrical room on the other side of the field for the amps and remote power controller for the opposite side bleachers (east side).  The previous install had a pair of CE1000's driving 650' of #10THW from the pressbox for the east side speakers...until the field was converted to turf and the excavators 'removed' the conduit and wiring with a backhoe.

My question is the audio feed for the east side.  I'm looking for opinions on the best way to get the audio out there.  The total run will be around 1100-1200' and right now, there's no cabling run or preconceived notions as to how to do it.  I'm just looking for some opinions of what would work the best.  I'm planning on doing a separate control cable run for the remote sequencer and monitoring.

Thanks for any input.
Logged
"When push comes to shove, I want to be at the top of the ramp"

Jim "Bruce" Richards Sr.
RME Audio Video Inc.

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2015, 08:28:50 am »

As an audio amateur and an ex-professional network person, I'd suggest Dante over fibre networking.  Its not the cheapest solution, but everything else will be harder work.  You could even dispense with the fibre and use a point-to-point wireless link  which should reduce the installation workload further.

Since you've got a network level connection to the far electrical room, you can use IP rack switches to control the power.  With networking, one size of cabling really does fit all.
Logged

Robert Healey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 229
Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2015, 11:06:39 am »

I've got an install in an outdoor sports stadium that has 2 distinct 'sides' to it with bleacher seats.  My plan is to put a main rack in the pressbox with the the head-end equipment (west side bleachers) and another remote wall rack in an electrical room on the other side of the field for the amps and remote power controller for the opposite side bleachers (east side).  The previous install had a pair of CE1000's driving 650' of #10THW from the pressbox for the east side speakers...until the field was converted to turf and the excavators 'removed' the conduit and wiring with a backhoe.

My question is the audio feed for the east side.  I'm looking for opinions on the best way to get the audio out there.  The total run will be around 1100-1200' and right now, there's no cabling run or preconceived notions as to how to do it.  I'm just looking for some opinions of what would work the best.  I'm planning on doing a separate control cable run for the remote sequencer and monitoring.

Thanks for any input.

All the network approaches will require fiber at that distance, but I agree it may be your best option. Is there a building network that goes to that side for point of sale, etc? You may be able to convince the IT guy to let you have a VLAN on his network.

I don't think that is too far for a strong line level run. You will want to be in metallic conduit, though, which may be a tough sell to the electrical contractor.

You could also use a high impedance (70V) system and keep the amps in the press box but again you are running a lot of cable through a lot of conduit. You would need a big, fat, expensive transformer to make sure you keep some low end on the other side if you took that approach.
Logged

Robert Lofgren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 826
Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2015, 11:49:36 am »

While optic fiber is nice you only need three or four network switches in between (one each 300ft) if you run dante or similar protocol for audio using normal ethernet cable.
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6604
  • Audio Plumber
Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2015, 12:02:19 pm »

While optic fiber is nice you only need three or four network switches in between (one each 300ft) if you run dante or similar protocol for audio using normal ethernet cable.

Probably making the fiber cheaper. If you are using installation fiber instead of portable tactical fiber a 2 strand piece of 50m MM fiber is not that expensive. the cost of installing it will far outweigh the cost of the fiber. I would go with fiber in any network run over 100' if I could (and I do)

Mac
Logged

Jim Richards

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2015, 04:17:35 pm »

Thank you all for your ideas and opinions.  There are no network connections or infrastructure for networking at all in the far side bleachers (think of this side of the stadium as the red-headed stepchild of an evil witch). PTP W/L was thought of at one point as it's around 400' line of sight, but then it would still require control wiring to turn the remote cabinet amps on.

Compounding this whole thing (something I forgot to mention before) was the budget for this.  They're homing in on around $10K, so my pencil needs to be exceedingly sharp.

Regarding the Dante route, any experience with the best analog to Dante conversion strategies?

Thanks again!
Logged
"When push comes to shove, I want to be at the top of the ramp"

Jim "Bruce" Richards Sr.
RME Audio Video Inc.

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6604
  • Audio Plumber
Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2015, 04:46:33 pm »

Regarding the Dante route, any experience with the best analog to Dante conversion strategies?

How many channels in each direction? Do you need more than 2 interface points?

Mac
Logged

Josh Millward

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 713
  • Meridian, MS
Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2015, 06:20:52 pm »

You are well within the realm of just running analog cable around to the other side of the stadium.

If you are going to have an amp rack over there anyway, and you have a really tight budget, I would forgo networked anything in this case and just use a couple control pairs for switching the amp rack on and off and a few audio pairs for however many channels of audio you actually need.

Keep in mind that you could just run a few Cat5e or Cat6 Ethernet cables around the stadium and run line level audio on it and control signals. That would be a simple solution that would be extremely cost efficient. You can not later use these cables for networking via Ethernet because they are much too long.
Logged
Josh Millward
Danley Sound Labs

Robert Healey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 229
Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2015, 06:41:30 pm »


Regarding the Dante route, any experience with the best analog to Dante conversion strategies?


RDL has a new line of Dante products: http://www.rdlnet.com/Dante/
Logged

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2015, 09:43:36 pm »

...around $10K, so my pencil needs to be exceedingly sharp. ... best analog to Dante conversion strategies?
One low-ish cost possibility is (don't laugh!) an X32 Rack with a Dante card at each end, which gives, as a minimum, 8 in 8 out on XLRs.  Plus 8 more on TRS.  Plus the possibility of processing like limiting and crossovers if needed.  Or even a bit of mixing!  All remote controllable.

You are well within the realm of just running analog cable around to the other side of the stadium.
Although one can run audio cables a long way, the chances of the ground potentials being the same over a thousand foot of audio cable in a large premise is zero, so by using fibre one can just make that whole class of problem go away.  One problem with long audio runs is lighting; the induced voltages on signal cables can make bad things happen even when a direct hit isn't involved.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Extended audio cabling run for stadium
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2015, 09:43:36 pm »


Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.08 seconds with 25 queries.