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[Chuck Simon]

 " You'd be better off shortening those runs down and finding a spot to squeeze in the amp rack at stage side. "

Really!  An amp rack doesn't take up that much space!  You need to get your amps on stage, clean up that mess and have some semlance of a professional set up and make life easier on yourself.

[Dave Bigelow]

I agree, get those amps away from FOH. If you put them behind the stacks you can chop your cables in half and still have length for days.

[Joe Brugnoni]

I agree, get those amps away from FOH. If you put them behind the stacks you can chop your cables in half and still have length for days.

+1

[Randall Hyde]

Hey folks,

I find myself running four or five lengths of 12 guage speaker wire every night I run sound.  These run from my location (where I mix in the back and where I place the amps because there isn't enough room on the "stage") to the stage area where they connect to the speakers.  Right now I have a collection of 12/2 cable, each about 100' long with a Speakon connector on one end and a 1/4 inch on the other (some are speakon-speakon).  One run for subs, one for tops, one for MON1 and one for MON2.

I've been considering alternatives because of the setup time and pain-in-the-butt of wrangling so many cables.

One thought has been using 12/8 cable with different configurations:

• 4xNL4FX -- 12/8 cable -- 4xNL4FX, connecting directly to the amp on one end (via a bridge-mono x-cable if needed) and to the speaker on the other end (via another cable [or two])
• NL8FC -- 12/8 cable -- NL8FC with two or three more speakon connectors on each end to connect everthing together depending on the configuration
• Building a speakon speaker break-out box into which one end of the 12/8 cable will plug and will provide two connections for each wired pair (one for each top or sub when running them bridged & parallel)

My question is whether there is such a thing as too many speakon connectors while using 12 guage speaker wires.  Right now I have either one connection (normal operation) or three connections (when a bridged-mono x-cable is inserted for bridged-mono operation).

This could jump to as high as six to eight in a single run.  Is this too many?

 - .dave.

Dave Marra
Kingdom Sound, LLC
Milford NH 03055

I generally run 12/4 to the stage from my amps (which are always located beside the stage, btw). Never more than 50' length at 4 ohms.  There is no reason you couldn't run 8 conductors in a single cable; but at 100' that's going to be one heavy cable. I assume this isn't a portable application?

I split my 12/4 into two 12/2 cables at either end for flexibility. The 12/2 cables are typically 5' long (at the amp end) and 10'-15' long at the speaker end (15' for a pair of monitors, 10' for the mains).

As others have said, 100' 12 AWG is too small for four ohms. 12 AWG *barely* cuts it for 50' (damping factor issues). Best not only to have the amps right next to the stage, but a couple amp racks on either side of the stage so you can have 10' runs to you speakers from the amps :-)

[Mike Pyle]

What I've gathered thus far is that as long as the connectors are in good shape i should be OK.

Also make sure the connectors are NEUTRIK speakons and not some cheapo knockoff. I've seen some cheap junk that wouldn't make a proper connection even when brand new.

[Dave Marra]

Well time to re-think many things.  One of the regular gigs is an open-mic in the corner of bar room area.  This is very space-challenged.  There really isn't room for the two amp boxes (two 8U Road Ready cases).  I'm heading there in a few minutes and will evaluate what changes can be made to accommodate the amps being at the speakers.

How do you "fit" together 2 conductors of a 12/4 conductor into a single NL4FX connection?  The screw-in connections only fit a single amount of 12 guage wire.

 - .dave.

[Mac Kerr]

How do you "fit" together 2 conductors of a 12/4 conductor into a single NL4FX connection?  The screw-in connections only fit a single amount of 12 guage wire.

You don't. You wire the cables as 4 conductor cables. You rewire the speakers to use both the 1 and 2 pairs in parallel. This way your cables will work fine if you ever go to biamp.

Mac

[Brian Jojade]

A 100' 12 gauge cable will represent a 10-20% loss of power to your speaker at 4 ohms.  Not a huge amount, but something to take into consideration.  Speakon connections, if solid, add very little resistance and should be fine.  1/4" connections are not designed for high current operation, ie, over 100 watts and should be avoided at all costs.  There is also the safety issue with 1/4" and banana connections at high power to deal with.

If space is that tight of a concern where amp racks aren't possible, then an alternative solution would be powered speakers.  But if you are in a room that doesn't have room for 2 8 space racks of amps, then you probably don't need 2 8 space racks of amps in that room.

[Rob Spence]

But if you are in a room that doesn't have room for 2 8 space racks of amps, then you probably don't need 2 8 space racks of amps in that room.

+1

[Dave Marra]

But if you are in a room that doesn't have room for 2 8 space racks of amps, then you probably don't need 2 8 space racks of amps in that room.

hehe, true.  The two racks are not fully populated.  Each has two amps, one rack contains a powerbar, crossover, top amp and monitor amp.  The other has a power bar and two sub amps; one of which is a backup in case any of the other amps fail - which I've actually had happen.

What am I taking away from this?  Switch to a single rack case with the three needed amps and leave the spare amp in the truck.  Place this single box "on stage"; even if it's tight; and restructure my wire layout accordingly.

Indeed this has been very enlightening and fruitful.  thanks !!!

 - .dave.

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