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[Brian Bolly]

A little more info I just picked up.  He's currently using a Pro Co db2 DI on a Taylor guitar.

This.  Right here.  Borrow a Countryman and pull a Folgers switch.  The input impedance of the Countryman vs the DB2 alone should tell the story.

[Scott Wagner]

This.  Right here.  Borrow a Countryman and pull a Folgers switch.  The input impedance of the Countryman vs the DB2 alone should tell the story.

I doubt it's an impedance issue, since the Taylors have active pre-amps on board. Another solution is to not change any equipment, spend some time setting the guitar controls properly, and taping it down so the guitarist can't touch it.

[Luke Geis]

The impedance is huge on the impact of the sound. This is especially true when using truly passive devises. I have found that many higher end Di's use higher impedance's, some as high 3megs. This makes the input sound brighter and perhaps to some more Hi-Fi? Some are lower like the Radial JDI which has an 140kohms input impedance. This will make the signal seem duller and have less perceived high end. This is great with acoustic guitar pre-amps that are pretty bright to begin with. Now using the JDI with a keyboard could be too dull? The J48 has one of the most disgusting circuits I have ever seen. It is a very busy and has obvious tone shaping going on. It may sound good, but for how long? It's input impedance is 220kohms for reference. The countryman Type 85 has an input of 10megs! This is extremely high and they actually tout is as being 10X higher than the typical amp input. This is not necessarily a good thing.

The way a circuit works when loaded by the next thing in line ( in this case a di ) is based on ground potential. The higher the ground potential the more high end content that is retained in the signal. The lower impedances allows more high end content to be shunted to ground and will have a duller sound. You want to make a guitar sound really really bright, load it up with a higher input impedance. You want to make it sound duller and more natural, lower the impedance at the input it is connected to. It is because of capacitance. The lower the load the closer the signal is to ground and the higher the capacitance through the cable is, this causes the high end to shunt away.

Longer instrument cables do the same thing. The longer the cable the more resistance it has, but also the more capacitance. This is why longer cables sound a little duller than short cables. Monster cables and there highly expensive line of tailored signal cables is most likely using wire of specific resistance per foot to acquire a sound that is suited to the instrument the cable is designed for? There is even a company that has a line where the shortest 3' cable sound just like it's 20' counterpart, or visa versa....... If you want to reduce some high end content on a signal from a guitar, simply use a longer cable. If you want to brighten it up a little, use a shorter one.

I feel that the DI's should have input impedance's more indicative of what they are intended to emulate. In this case it is usually an amplifier and most amplifiers have an input impedance of 1meg. A good sounding DI is not classified by it's Jensen transformers, but the some of all the parts. I do not like Countryman DI's, I think they sound sterile and bright. I don't mind Radial DI's, they do sound good. I have had really good luck with cheaper DI's that cost half or less what the higher end ones do. I have not done any major testing with other DI's to see how they do with linear response, but can say without doubt that the Rolls DB25 matchbox is perfectly flat from 20-20 at well above any signal you would be sending it. It is about $25 at most places.

[DavidTurner]

You assume, incorrectly I believe, that musicians don't know good tone. It has been my experience that, given a bit of help and instruction, the musician himself is the best judge of what sounds good.

I doubt it's an impedance issue, since the Taylors have active pre-amps on board. Another solution is to not change any equipment, spend some time setting the guitar controls properly, and taping it down so the guitarist can't touch it.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

You assume, incorrectly I believe, that musicians don't know good tone. It has been my experience that, given a bit of help and instruction, the musician himself is the best judge of what sounds good.

Maybe so, maybe not.  I'd say that the ratio of "people who get it" to "hack it to death" is about 1 out of 10.

The biggest problem is that they're making the  tonal decisions from on stage rather than behind the mixing console.  And if they know good tone they won't be using el-cheapo acoustic-electric guitars with built-in piezo transducers in the first place.

But what would I know.  I've only been doing sound for stuff for 50 years or so...

[lindsay Dean]

  i would add that somtimes just a change of strings , ilghter or heavier or some players use heavy bottoms light top strings.
  If he is happy with the natural sound of the guitar then the next thing to consider is what he is plugging into. If the monitors dont sound how his unplugged guitar does he wont be happy.
if he is not getting the sound he likes it might be time to consider an acoustic guitar amp if he can find the sound there,
 problem solved.
As long as the engineer does his monitor send pre eq.

[Steve M Smith]

The impedance is huge on the impact of the sound. This is especially true when using truly passive devises. I have found that many higher end Di's use higher impedance's, some as high 3megs. This makes the input sound brighter and perhaps to some more Hi-Fi?

It mainly improves the LF.


Steve.

[DavidTurner]

  I've only been doing sound for stuff for 50 years or so...

Me too.

[Joseph D. Macry]

I installed a passive Martin Thinline Gold under-saddle pickup in my cheap Yamaha acoustic. No preamp onboard, wired straight to the end-pin jack. Sounds thin and cardboardy when plugged straight into the board, but through a Baggs Para-Acoustic with the tones controls set to neutral makes for a world of improvement. I assume that a lot of the improvement is from getting a proper impedance match.

[Scott Wagner]

You assume, incorrectly I believe, that musicians don't know good tone. It has been my experience that, given a bit of help and instruction, the musician himself is the best judge of what sounds good.

I stand by my previous comments. I routinely work with high-level acoustic musicians. The best of them set their tone in advance using a good reference and don't touch it after that.

Let's imagine a musician on stage with the only thing getting to them from the PA is the low end which most (almost all) speakers are too small to control the pattern. They hear this low end mush, grab 4k-5k and jack it through the roof to counteract it. Now you've got an "ice pick in the forehead" sound. It sounds good on the stage (their perspective), but is a mess out front (audience perspective). This happens all the time. My last experience (a week ago) with a ParaDI required a 26dB cut to 4k before it was even usable. Instead of messing with the tone controls, they really should be asking me (us) to adjust the monitors to their liking.

I've only got 35 years under my belt. I guess I'm just a "noob".

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