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Author Topic: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?  (Read 7623 times)

Lee Buckalew

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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2015, 08:49:31 am »

I'm consulting on a sound system setup for a local vineyard that wants to do a number of outside music shows over the summer. However, there's a few houses down the hill approximately 1,000 feet away from where the band will be happening, and they're not happy about hearing ANY music. As soon as the weather gets nice I'm going to run a decibel plot using some big speakers to simulate the actual band systems, but I'm pretty sure the thump is going to carry down the hill. While I've read about cardioid subs being used to focus energy away from the stage and more towards the room, can they actually be aimed away from the houses in question to reduce thump? If so, just how many dB reduction is possible on the "quiet" side of the pattern? Where do I begin studying about this? Thanks for any insight you can provide.

Mike,
Have you modeled it in Display to see how MLA or MLA-C would handle it?
They will give a broad band frequency response at SPL for every reference point placed in the venue which can include all the area behind the speakers too. 

Lee
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Lee Buckalew
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duane massey

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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2015, 11:06:15 pm »

I'm with Ivan. A horn-loaded system, properly designed INCLUDING large (OK, immense) bass horns would be the most effective solution. May or not be practical, but would be your best solution as far as noise control.
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Duane Massey
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chuck clark

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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2015, 04:04:41 am »

Hi Mike,  lots of good advice here, just want to give you a couple more ideas for your solution options toolkit.
I once saw a hang of sonex covered sheets of plywood behind a line array effectively kill a vicious back bounce off a cement wall.  While cardioid subs will create nice nulls to the rear for the low end,  a better wideband solution might require something similar to the noise walls built on either side of freeways where they run through residential areas and the noise must be abated to avoid killing real estate values. (and ticked off voters) Lol
Chuck
 
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Merlijn van Veen

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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2015, 05:31:42 am »


While cardioid subs will create nice nulls to the rear for the low end

Small distinction. End fire will create a number of octave wide nulls equal to the amount of subwoofers minus one. Inline- or inverted stack gradient results in broadband cancellation.

Brandon Scopel

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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2015, 09:39:27 am »

I have very little experience with line arrays but used two martin mla mini arrays (4 boxes a side) for a show in a agricultural type building. The complaint was the vendors ( it was a bridal show and expo with a center stage for fashion shows) could not talk to people during fashion show, so they were adjusted to drop from 85-90 db to 62db after 45 ft. There was a noticeable difference from when wt3's were used.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2015, 09:55:17 am »

I ran a few tests over the weekend with a moderate set of speakers at the proposed performance area, but turned to fire directly at the housing area in question. I measured a 30-dB drop to the houses when starting with a 95-dB SPL (Slow-A) music track measured 20 feet in front of the speakers. The ambient noise level from far-off traffic measured around 52 dB SPL (Slow-A) at the housing front yards, so a 90 dB SPL system would hardly hit 60 dB SPL in the housing area. And that may fade into the background noise, or nearly so.

Our first gig will be the end of May, so I'm suggesting a 100 dB SPL cap on the large show sound system, which will be pointed 180 degrees away from the housing area. The large shows are less of a worry since they're scheduled for late afternoons/early evenings. This is a winery so they're trying to draw an afternoon/evening dining crowd. However, we're worried about DJ's hired in for outside weddings where they want to party until 11PM. Luckily, most local DJ's won't have the horsepower to get a 100 dB mix happening outside without blowing up some speakers. But at least I have an idea of how this could work. Once we get through this first season of outside summer events, I'll have enough intel to decide if a dedicated house system with some sort of directional subs is required. If that's the case, then I'll need to get serious about auditioning directional speaker technology to solve the problem. 

Super interesting gig, and I'll keep you posted here as it proceeds.
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Mike Sokol
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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2015, 11:29:35 am »

Mike...

Two words:

dripping faucet

It won't necessarily be the SPL, but rather the rhythmic pulsation that will grind their gears.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2015, 11:37:37 am »

Mike...

Two words:

dripping faucet

It won't necessarily be the SPL, but rather the rhythmic pulsation that will grind their gears.

Yeah, I'm thinking about starting a band named "Pink Noise". That would fix the pulsation problem, I think.
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Mike Sokol
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Steve Karr

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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2015, 12:35:43 pm »

Definitely worth trying if the houses are behind.  You may be surprised at how much it helps.

Jason
I work several large amphitheaters. It will work well if the spacing between subs is correct.
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Scott Wagner

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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2015, 11:57:38 pm »

Mike,

Have you considered adding mass between the stage and the houses? A dirt berm is a fairly effective sound-damping device. That, coupled with the other techniques discussed, should easily get you near or below the noise floor.
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Scott Wagner
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Re: Will cardioid subs reduce thump to the neighbors?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2015, 11:57:38 pm »


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