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[Peter Morris]

Peter,

The Lab Sub was designed in early 2002.
Some of the high power, long throw woofers designed since definitely do surpass the Lab 12, and are appropriate for use in horns, which can add 6 or more dB over bass reflex designs.

Art

Thanks Art, I didn't realize it was that old 

The problem with a horn is that if you want to go low and loud it has to be big ... yes you can get 6dB more but not in a small box.

I have a bunch of my version of the Lab horn and a stack of good double 18's loaded with 18sound 18NLW9000's. I find myself using the double 18's all the time, the box is a good size, they sound good and go hard ... but I do love the impact of a good horn.

[Art Welter]

Thanks Art, I didn't realize it was that old 

The problem with a horn is that if you want to go low and loud it has to be big ... yes you can get 6dB more but not in a small box.

I have a bunch of my version of the Lab horn and a stack of good double 18's loaded with 18sound 18NLW9000's. I find myself using the double 18's all the time, the box is a good size, they sound good and go hard ... but I do love the impact of a good horn.

Peter,

Time flies, and small is relative, this single 18" design is just a bit over half the size of a Lab sub and has the same output of a much larger dual 18 bass reflex using twice the drivers and power:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/185588-keystone-sub-using-18-15-12-inch-speakers.html

The 18sound 18NLW9000 would work well in the Keystone..

Art

[Rick Powell]

Peter,

Time flies, and small is relative, this single 18" design is just a bit over half the size of a Lab sub and has the same output of a much larger dual 18 bass reflex using twice the drivers and power:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/185588-keystone-sub-using-18-15-12-inch-speakers.html

The 18sound 18NLW9000 would work well in the Keystone..

Art

I was thinking that the two Keystones would sound very good under one of Peter Morris' DIY 212+H boxes.  They are probably 80-100 lb. lighter than the LabSub, which I have moved around.

[Doug Fowler]

I have basically inherited 4 EAW KF850 tops.

I'm not interested in trying to be a sound provider full time, but I do gigs here and there, help out at festivals or smaller concerts. Could be anything from blues, jazz, rock, EDM, dubstep, DJs. Just looking to be fairly well rounded for whatever comes up.

I have access to a decent workshop. I used to work in a cabinet shop. So making a little sawdust doesn't scare me much.

Am I right in thinking that 4 lab subs would be appropriate to put under the 850s? Is there something else that I should be looking at?

Thanks!

-Kelly

Keep in mind the KF850 HF is in the center of the loudspeaker.  Even stacked on an SB850, it's not optimal.

IOW not so bad for those in front, but easy to lose HF in the rear.  Pay attention to the splay angle.  Run some noise, adjust angle for minimum interference.

[Mark Wilkinson]

Keep in mind the KF850 HF is in the center of the loudspeaker.  Even stacked on an SB850, it's not optimal.

IOW not so bad for those in front, but easy to lose HF in the rear.  Pay attention to the splay angle.  Run some noise, adjust angle for minimum interference.

Not quite sure I follow what you're saying....
...are you just saying the box, be it KF850 or Peter's DIY,  needs to be raised ?
...or are there other concerns too?
thx

[Mac Kerr]

Not quite sure I follow what you're saying....
...are you just saying the box, be it KF850 or Peter's DIY,  needs to be raised ?
...or are there other concerns too?
thx

They both have the high frequency source in the middle of the box, which is the point that needs to be above the heads of the audience if you want any high end to get beyond the 2nd row.

Mac

[Mark Wilkinson]

They both have the high frequency source in the middle of the box, which is the point that needs to be above the heads of the audience if you want any high end to get beyond the 2nd row.

Mac

Thx Mac, that's what i thought...just wasn't sure there wasn't more...

[Ivan Beaver]

Not quite sure I follow what you're saying....
...are you just saying the box, be it KF850 or Peter's DIY,  needs to be raised ?
...or are there other concerns too?
thx

ANY HF (and mids if possible) need to be above peoples heads.

Low freq  will go around objects, but the higher the freq the more easily it is blocked..

Also getting the speakers up higher will provide a more even front to back coverage.

If done properly, you can have the same level front to back.

[Kelly_Dodge]

ANY HF (and mids if possible) need to be above peoples heads.

Low freq  will go around objects, but the higher the freq the more easily it is blocked..

Also getting the speakers up higher will provide a more even front to back coverage.

If done properly, you can have the same level front to back.

The 850 has the high frequency driver in the center of the 15" woofer. It sits roughly 1/3 from the top of the box.

So if I stacked an 850 on a lab or a keystone sub, that would put the center of the tweeter at about 73" or roughly 6'. Wouldn't that be okish for a seated audience, but kinda low for a standing one?

To get even coverage I'd want to be considerably higher. Isn't there a rule of thumb based on the depth of the audience? (1/3rd? 1/4th?)

-Kelly

[Ivan Beaver]

The 850 has the high frequency driver in the center of the 15" woofer. It sits roughly 1/3 from the top of the box.

So if I stacked an 850 on a lab or a keystone sub, that would put the center of the tweeter at about 73" or roughly 6'. Wouldn't that be okish for a seated audience, but kinda low for a standing one?

To get even coverage I'd want to be considerably higher. Isn't there a rule of thumb based on the depth of the audience? (1/3rd? 1/4th?)

-Kelly

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

It you truly want even front ot back coverage, you will need to get the speakers (depending on the size of the intended area) 15-30' up in the air.

If you don't mind the level difference, then you might be OK with a seated audience.

But the people in front (depending on how far they are away from the speakers) could be "blasted" as compared to those in the back.

Of course you have not said how big the area is-where the people are in relation to the speakers, what the intended SPL is and so forth.

So it is "guessing" at best.

So-as usual- IT DEPENDS

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