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Author Topic: Sub Suggestion  (Read 14715 times)

Kelly_Dodge

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Sub Suggestion
« on: July 22, 2015, 02:45:45 pm »

I have basically inherited 4 EAW KF850 tops.

I'm not interested in trying to be a sound provider full time, but I do gigs here and there, help out at festivals or smaller concerts. Could be anything from blues, jazz, rock, EDM, dubstep, DJs. Just looking to be fairly well rounded for whatever comes up.

I have access to a decent workshop. I used to work in a cabinet shop. So making a little sawdust doesn't scare me much.

Am I right in thinking that 4 lab subs would be appropriate to put under the 850s? Is there something else that I should be looking at?

Thanks!

-Kelly
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Scott Harris

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Re: Sub Suggestion
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 04:56:45 pm »

Search around in this forum.  This has been discussed at least once a month for the last 5 years.  Probably not that much, but it seems like it.  :-)

You will find comparisons of many various subs vs lab subs and their suitability for use in various genres.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Sub Suggestion
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2015, 05:04:29 pm »

Are you going to be putting the KF850s on scaffolding or just setting them on the subs?  Setting them on a conventional double 18 leaves them too low.  So taller cabinets would definitely help.
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Kelly_Dodge

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Re: Sub Suggestion
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2015, 05:15:35 pm »

Are you going to be putting the KF850s on scaffolding or just setting them on the subs?  Setting them on a conventional double 18 leaves them too low.  So taller cabinets would definitely help.

I guess that's part of the process. The 850s are about 250lbs a piece, so without some kind of lift I'm not going to be able to get them too high. It seems like a couple Labs would get me almost 4 feet up. Not sure 2 guys could lift the 850s much higher than that.

But if a smaller cabinet and some scaffolding makes sense, I'm open to that.

Thanks!
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Kelly_Dodge

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Re: Sub Suggestion
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2015, 05:26:42 pm »

Search around in this forum.  This has been discussed at least once a month for the last 5 years.  Probably not that much, but it seems like it.  :-)

You will find comparisons of many various subs vs lab subs and their suitability for use in various genres.

I agree, and I've gone back and read a lot of posts over the last few years.

I see a lot of Labs are better than JBL XYZs, or not as good as Danley ABCs, or whatever.

I also see hints that there might be newer DIY plans (Tapped Horns?) out there that might be options.

And I think I basically understand the need for several labs to go really low or loud. But is a 1 to 1 ratio of labs to EAW 850s reasonable? Would just 2 labs be enough for all but the most bass heavy music? Maybe I need 6 or 8?

I'm not worried about riders. The weight and size of these things isn't much different than the tops. It seems like a decent match to me, but I have no experience with lab subs.

Thanks!
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Sub Suggestion
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2015, 07:09:00 pm »

I agree, and I've gone back and read a lot of posts over the last few years.

I see a lot of Labs are better than JBL XYZs, or not as good as Danley ABCs, or whatever.

I also see hints that there might be newer DIY plans (Tapped Horns?) out there that might be options.

And I think I basically understand the need for several labs to go really low or loud. But is a 1 to 1 ratio of labs to EAW 850s reasonable? Would just 2 labs be enough for all but the most bass heavy music? Maybe I need 6 or 8?

I'm not worried about riders. The weight and size of these things isn't much different than the tops. It seems like a decent match to me, but I have no experience with lab subs.

Thanks!
The question is not whether 2 will be enough for "bass heavy music"?

The answer is yes it is, and no it is not.

It all depends on how loud at what freq at what distance.

In some cases 2 will be fine.  In other cases, more like 40 would be better.

It depends on specific cases and desires.

Also what some people consider "enough" is not enough for other people.

Different people have different expectations.

Some EDM music is centered around 53 Hz.  Other types need to go down to 20Hz solid to be able to reproduce it.
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Peter Morris

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Re: Sub Suggestion
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2015, 06:29:20 am »

I have basically inherited 4 EAW KF850 tops.

I'm not interested in trying to be a sound provider full time, but I do gigs here and there, help out at festivals or smaller concerts. Could be anything from blues, jazz, rock, EDM, dubstep, DJs. Just looking to be fairly well rounded for whatever comes up.

I have access to a decent workshop. I used to work in a cabinet shop. So making a little sawdust doesn't scare me much.

Am I right in thinking that 4 lab subs would be appropriate to put under the 850s? Is there something else that I should be looking at?

Thanks!

-Kelly

2 x Lab subs a side does not work that well, you need 3 or more before the horn mouth is big enough. 4 per side would work well.

For general purpose applications a good double 18 with some of the latest drivers and a big amp is hard to beat, its also relatively easy to build and will work without any DSP correction.

For 2 x 850s a side you will need at least 2 good double 18s a side, 3 would be a better match for most applications.

You also need to consider that the 850 is 26.4 wide at the front and 29.5 deep. Whatever you select will need to be big enough to stack the 850s on safely.

DIY cost effective solution -
http://bcspeakers.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/02/12/16/15/54/696/file

Better (joint two of these together) -
http://bcspeakers.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/02/12/16/15/12/741/file

or these look great but need a bit more bracing.
http://www.eighteensound.it/Portals/0/EnclosuresKits/18sound_18_dual_subwoofer_kit.pdf

Edit - I would also suggest using the UX8800 as your crossover.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 06:37:23 am by Peter Morris »
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Jacob Shaw

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Re: Sub Suggestion
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2015, 12:35:46 pm »

Sb850s. I heard a rig in Nashville once that featured 4 sb850 and 4 kf850 per side ground stacked in a 10,000sf ballroom cannery).  The engineer is kind of famous among the edm fans in the area ( we call him "the fat man").  They stacked so nicely with their seemingly curved facade, and the sound was immersive and clean, yet loud enough to send me running back to the door for earplugs.  Thank you fat man, your my hero!
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Sub Suggestion
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2015, 05:17:53 pm »

I guess that's part of the process. The 850s are about 250lbs a piece, so without some kind of lift I'm not going to be able to get them too high. It seems like a couple Labs would get me almost 4 feet up. Not sure 2 guys could lift the 850s much higher than that.

But if a smaller cabinet and some scaffolding makes sense, I'm open to that.

Thanks!
There's a fellow around here with an 850 rig.  He stacks SB1000s two high to get the 850s up off the ground.  I've seen them stack the 850s 2 high and 3 across where folks just wanted sheer volume.  He would do this with his two sons doing the heavy lifting.  Neither of them terribly large but young and in shape.  Both were drummers and I played with one of them.  He would come to a gig after a night of moving those things and a lighting rig and be blasted.  We used that system at a couple of large corporate gigs but only the bottom SB1000s were on.  The middles ones were just for show and stack height.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Sub Suggestion
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2015, 05:40:25 pm »

I think before you start making sawdust is to ask yourself, "Do I really need 4 KF850's"

Are those really what you need for the type of gigs you will be doing?

Could you sell them and get something that fits your needs better?
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Re: Sub Suggestion
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2015, 05:40:25 pm »


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