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[George Friedman-Jimenez]

You have gotten lots of technically good advice but if you follow it the cacophony of music over bikes will be even more deafening than it is now.
The best solution would be to convince all the bikers to put MUFFLERS on their Harleys.
That would do a world of good, not just for your ears but for lots of other people as well.

Scrambling for shelter from the flame attacks...

[Scott Holtzman]

Scott, you know enough to be dangerous.  I mean that in a nice way, before anyone gets all huffy....

What Scott are you talking about?  I don't see any Scott's contributing, certainly not me.

[Scott Holtzman]

I do have a few suggestions since I operate KW series IMHO quite successfully.

1 - While a few other front loaded subs may be a hair better.  Nothing in the sub $2000 range is an upgrade from the KW181's.  They are very musical also again IMHO.  To go the next step is a huge investment especially when you add in power, possibly amplification, storage, logistics etc.  The other issue is every time I come close to spending money I also realize I am going to expend a huge amount of capital to what represents 3% of my business.  I don't believe that just because I upgrade our rig that all of a sudden we are going to be experienced in operating it and new customers are going to run to us.  Going upmarket is a slow process, leverage relationships to get a few larger gigs, do a good job, play off that good will, etc.  While all that is going on you have to have the inventory sitting in your warehouse. 

2 - I can't find enough hands to run the gear I have, stepping up to hire experienced techs on large events would be a huge expense and for the most part I would not be able to keep them happy doing small corporate and bar gigs.

3 - Better speakers mean better mixers, processor, wireless etc.  All the things customers that rent out larger systems expect. 

See the theme?

Now you can get a lot more out of what you have.  I would grab 4 more 181's.  Outside 6-8 with a pair of 153's as mains and 122's as side fills gives you some breathing room.

122's make good delay fills.  I use the little Behringer Shark DSP's.  They are handy tools, they have EQ, delay, limiters even feedback filters that are not horribly abusive. 

Get the 153's in the air.  I fly them two ways that is very safe.  First I use Global Truss ST132's stands.  You can use the pole cup but then you don't have down tilt.  I use the fly points.  I use simple Global F33 triangle truss.  Leave 18" off the each end and use the 132's to fly the truss.  I also send two movers and LED PAR'S up on the truss.  I use the lifesavers filled with 70lbs of lead pellets.  That adds 140 lb's of stability to each side.  Once you have the truss above heads a pair of k10's on the stage lip provide great front fills.  If you need coverage in the wings send up a pair of 122's mae sure your splay angle is very high.  You will still get some combing at lower frequencies.

Good luck

[Jerome Casinger]

Thanks Scott,

Some good stuff in there.  Never looked into the shark, will do some research on them, if anything at least it is another "tool" that I now know about.  I run the X32, have two consoles and the rack (use for the snake feature, and also the option for IPAD control on smaller gigs) so processing is power is pretty good for delays.  I have the Global Truss ST132's already, and you are right, Lifting them on the poles is not a fun task.  Even using the lay down method can be a pain.

I have had a few gigs now where having truss really would have made things much easier.  Admittedly, I have not dealt much with trussing, so have shy'd away from it as I know enough from being on here that it needs to be done right, and until recently would have been a lost expense with no ROI.  I know I am not creating a whole stage structure etc, but still, need to do my research on how far I could span etc.  As the whole theme of this thread goes, these gigs are becoming more common and since they are I want to ensure I am re-investing what I make from them to both make my life easier and give a better representation of what I can do, build the capability of our little company without the debt etc. 

I have had these gigs consistently throughout our area every other week since the season began ( I know that may be small numbers to some of you ), but for my one man show, they have been a great inject of funds into the company since my normal customers have stayed consistent. 

Thanks again for all the input.

I do have a few suggestions since I operate KW series IMHO quite successfully.

1 - While a few other front loaded subs may be a hair better.  Nothing in the sub $2000 range is an upgrade from the KW181's.  They are very musical also again IMHO.  To go the next step is a huge investment especially when you add in power, possibly amplification, storage, logistics etc.  The other issue is every time I come close to spending money I also realize I am going to expend a huge amount of capital to what represents 3% of my business.  I don't believe that just because I upgrade our rig that all of a sudden we are going to be experienced in operating it and new customers are going to run to us.  Going upmarket is a slow process, leverage relationships to get a few larger gigs, do a good job, play off that good will, etc.  While all that is going on you have to have the inventory sitting in your warehouse. 

2 - I can't find enough hands to run the gear I have, stepping up to hire experienced techs on large events would be a huge expense and for the most part I would not be able to keep them happy doing small corporate and bar gigs.

3 - Better speakers mean better mixers, processor, wireless etc.  All the things customers that rent out larger systems expect. 

See the theme?

Now you can get a lot more out of what you have.  I would grab 4 more 181's.  Outside 6-8 with a pair of 153's as mains and 122's as side fills gives you some breathing room.

122's make good delay fills.  I use the little Behringer Shark DSP's.  They are handy tools, they have EQ, delay, limiters even feedback filters that are not horribly abusive. 

Get the 153's in the air.  I fly them two ways that is very safe.  First I use Global Truss ST132's stands.  You can use the pole cup but then you don't have down tilt.  I use the fly points.  I use simple Global F33 triangle truss.  Leave 18" off the each end and use the 132's to fly the truss.  I also send two movers and LED PAR'S up on the truss.  I use the lifesavers filled with 70lbs of lead pellets.  That adds 140 lb's of stability to each side.  Once you have the truss above heads a pair of k10's on the stage lip provide great front fills.  If you need coverage in the wings send up a pair of 122's mae sure your splay angle is very high.  You will still get some combing at lower frequencies.

Good luck

[Tim McCulloch]

What Scott are you talking about?  I don't see any Scott's contributing, certainly not me.

You're not paying attention, Holtzman.  It's Scott Wagner.  Scott Bolt has also posted in this thread.

[Rob Spence]

You're not paying attention, Holtzman.  It's Scott Wagner.  Scott Bolt has also posted in this thread.

Oh nooos, the Scotts are all here 😀

To the OP, what is the width of the stages you work with?

I helped on a gig a few weeks ago that flew a pair of QRX per side on ST132s. He had a bar that sat on top of the stand and attached to the fly points with some aircraft cable. Sat the speakers on a case, lowered the stand to clip em in and cranked it up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Jerome Casinger]

It varies, I have one that is an amphitheater, curved stage that is about 50ft wide.  The others are mostly in the 20-30ft range .

I had a similar set up that was part of the original system I had with some EAW speakers, they were some homemade stands brackets built for the speakers I had at the time.  They were a little to flimsy for my liking so I ditched them, but the concept worked well for a matched set of traps on a single stand.  I imagine I could go to a local fab shop and have something made up.

If you do that can you put a little tile on the boxes or need them to remain hanging straight to ensure the weight is not skewed?

Oh nooos, the Scotts are all here 😀

To the OP, what is the width of the stages you work with?

I helped on a gig a few weeks ago that flew a pair of QRX per side on ST132s. He had a bar that sat on top of the stand and attached to the fly points with some aircraft cable. Sat the speakers on a case, lowered the stand to clip em in and cranked it up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Rob Spence]

It varies, I have one that is an amphitheater, curved stage that is about 50ft wide.  The others are mostly in the 20-30ft range .

I had a similar set up that was part of the original system I had with some EAW speakers, they were some homemade stands brackets built for the speakers I had at the time.  They were a little to flimsy for my liking so I ditched them, but the concept worked well for a matched set of traps on a single stand.  I imagine I could go to a local fab shop and have something made up.

If you do that can you put a little tile on the boxes or need them to remain hanging straight to ensure the weight is not skewed?

I think he had his built by Penn Elcom.

The QRX has fly track on the top & bottom. If you pick the right point of the track, they will tilt. Of course, the QRX already has a built in tilt down on the horn of 10 deg. You can use the bottom track for a pullback.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Ray Aberle]

Oh nooos, the Scotts are all here 😀

[Jerome Casinger]

I am pretty sure I know the answer to this, but I believe I have the GT-LB132 Tbar (not home to look).  It is the heaviest duty 2" TBar I have seen for any stands.  Does someone make something that attaches to the bar to fly speakers from?  I would think that bar made by GT would be engineered to handle that sort of thing since it is made for the stands, however I don't see anything online in regards to weight ratings etc except what is on the stands themselves if there was something to attach them to it of course.

I think he had his built by Penn Elcom.

The QRX has fly track on the top & bottom. If you pick the right point of the track, they will tilt. Of course, the QRX already has a built in tilt down on the horn of 10 deg. You can use the bottom track for a pullback.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[ProSoundWeb Community]